Supposed you were doing quest and suddenly 1 single dude for the opposite faction pops into view. You both stare at each other for a moment and then he starts to buff up......A fight is imminent and only one will walk.......to retrive their corpse

With a hypothetical situation like that what would be the most imbalace match up?

And how about regular duel?

"Only when you lose everything, then are you trully free to do anything."
enough with the MSN or forum gay siggies !!!!

this got to stop once and for all

People from all round the world unite and put something dumb in your siggy, or no siggy, but, please, enough with the gay moralist dumb sentences !!!!!

(nothing personal, but i had to read like 4 or 5 of those today and my eyes are bleeding now)...

back on topic: I think that even though there is imbalance in the game, any class can rape the ass of any other class. If both chars are played well and if both builds are designed for PVP, there is always a chance

From my personnal experience, i would say that shadow priest have a 90% kill on warriors... But thats just from my side ...

dude, that sig is from "Fight club" the greatest move ever! how could you diss that?

anyway,

" I think that even though there is imbalance in the game, any class can rape the ass of any other class. If both chars are played well and if both builds are designed for PVP, there is always a chance"

Have you ever fight epiced out warrior with your rogue? You'll be surprised.

there is this little thingy called build. If you look more into it, you will find out many intresting stuff. My rogue can't fight anything. I specced for the sole purpose of exploding the DPS meter.

When it comes to raping full T2.5 warrior, i use my priest. I win duels and BG easy even though my gear is only green/blue.... Because , it is specced for PVP. Dats the key

If one day i want to raps players butts with my rogue, i will wai TBC and go for a hemo build Then i will stand a serious chance...

Being a rogue and own dps meters? 61talent points.
Roll a druid and be teamed for everything? 10 talent points
Beating the crap out of 2 alliances? a Gnomish Mind control cap.
Be a Warlock and do all of that? Priceless.

EDIT: BTW i dunno how to vote on it cuz, I dont get it?

Mage vs warlock + felhunter: mage casts improved counterspell on warlock, then spam blink far far far away (the further the better)

theory*, for the warlock, with the succub or the felhunter the mage is dead ...
I think the warlock have a chance to beat all the other class, just have to play it well.
The priest have an imbalance against all the other class, it's my point of wiew.
And the best should be the Warlock, if it played well, my point of wiew again. I dun give exemples hhe, just remember when your in BF, how many time a Warlock killed you ? mmmm i like affli, fear ... good kiss from the succub etc...

personally, most imbalanced in my opinion?
Mage / Warrior (personal experience).

even with a total raid build like mine and no pvp abilities, the warrior should have TONS of luck and play like a sem-good for not being kited to death.

Locks vs mages.....
lets put it this way... anything is allowed. if i DO pop a major healing and consider my 2 ice blocks as total debuff removers, i can down the lock, even with succubus or felhunter, thanks to chain sheeping the lock.
sheep, cast on pet, sheep, cast on pet, sheep, cast on pet.

no matter how much i waste on pet, i can resheep lock and bandage + evo at the end, and the lock should still be cake with 1 ice block even. hell, i can even sheep him until my cooldown for the HP pot is ready again, just in case.

downside: i'll have wasted about every cooldown i have on 1 opponent. it's VERY hard, but i do manage.

like dead said. ANY class can pwn other classes. depends on build + skill, a lot of trying, on the opponent, and a little on gear, but not that much, depending on the encounter.

btw, hunters eat locks for breakfast. REALLY. F*CK their STA. they die.

The thing is: MOST fight against any class with any class got a chance, even the rogue vs warrior fights- although the warrior is the rogue's krytonite the rogue still stand and change, albeit an unfair and slim chance.

I know cuz I knew a pretty good rogue-luna and he beats warriors even if he had to blow all his cooldowns but he does beat them.

The thing with druid vs warlock- the most unfair fight, there is NO cooldown that the druid could blow and ANYTHING he could do that could with a fight against warlock.

Yes warlocks are overpower and imbalance, but other class does win sometimes. but with for the druid, it is impossible. There is nothing in the druid's asenal that does anything against a warlock.

I think prior 2.0.1 the hardest fight for rogues were:

1.Being jumped by a Hunter. Mainly due to being kitted from one corner to the other. And sometimes even if you had the jump; but you had a chance maybe, unless u really screw up.

2. Warriors. Well a no brainer you know... PLATE!

3. Druids were tough.

4. A properly played Shaman could beat me any day, but then my speccs werent pvp.

The easiest fight for me was:
1. Affliction and Destruction warlocks, no matter (except succubus) their pet because I could: Ambush, backstab then vanish and wait for energy and repeat. almost a guaranteed kill.

2. Mages, Stealth-in...
cheapshot (you want them to blink) then immediatedly do a 360 and gouge, usually they will be at the other side gouged they will either: iceblock or be really screwed because you sprint in and backstab, kidney shot and eventually another backstab, and finish them with an arrow.

Warlock vs Druid

warlock fear or deadcoil>fear. dot dot dot dot dot dot dot.
Begin casting shadowbold.

Druid regain control with less than 50%hp. shadowbold hit.

Druid less than 20%hp now. begin casting heal. some dot still on.

warlock spell lock or seduce or fear to interrupt heal.

Warlock begin casting again. druid less than 10% hp now. dot still on.

Whatever warlock cast hit druid.

Druid dead.

Chance of druid hitting warlock-1 (opener as cat stealth).
Unable to control druid during fight- 90%
Chance of druid winning against warlock - 0%

Or maybe I'm just a noob in pvp.

LOOOOOOOOOL... sounds like a typical warlock fight. yep.

to luna: rogues may get fire or arcane/fire mages, and IF they get the first jump on them.
but for me being deep frost,i dont really get killed by rogues. they are my preferred class.... even before warriors, cuz they have even less HP (casters dont care about armor ^^ ).
if i see you, you get a dot, can't stealth, get rooted, slowed, sheeped, if needed, and a few hits on the way.
i still have the vid where dead got nicely 2-shotted by a mage i happen to play, with 2 lucky crits. (he killed me before though, in about the same amount of time... lol our output is very satisfactory)

to ownage.... well, you now know locks kill dr00ds easy. dont face locks. lol
i dont know what to do in your case. i know other classes CAN take lock. nonetheless they are uber in pvp. not so much uber, but lets say, a dumb player can do lots of harm with a lock, while other classes need more skill to be played well in pvp.

but the strat you list there against locks..... a priest would do exactly the same to you, PLUS he can heal himself and bubble up.
why you dont complain about priests???

"to luna: rogues may get fire or arcane/fire mages, and IF they get the first jump on them.
but for me being deep frost,i dont really get killed by rogues. they are my preferred class.... even before warriors, cuz they have even less HP (casters dont care about armor ^^ ).
if i see you, you get a dot, can't stealth, get rooted, slowed, sheeped, if needed, and a few hits on the way."

Gotta agree with you that it depends on who gets the jump first then the circumstance will vary (distance, monsters around[you wont frost nova/ blink when the place is camped around with other mobs, and the specs of the classes involved.)
Hehehe if you include slow in, I will include Cloak of shadows hehehehe...

lol.....

wait till i get invisibility and start ganking... lol

Luna wrote:

The easiest fight for me was:
1. [...]

2. Mages, Stealth-in...
cheapshot (you want them to blink) then immediatedly do a 360 and gouge, usually they will be at the other side gouged they will either: iceblock or be really screwed because you sprint in and backstab, kidney shot and eventually another backstab, and finish them with an arrow.

It seems that you have never faced but coward mages, that are taking blink as their most powerful spell. As a mage on pvp realm before, I have never lost a fight against a rogue (or maybe a couple of fights before dinging 60); more than that, undead rogues were my favourite breakfast when beginning a farming session in plaguelands.

Pay a visit to official mage forums, you'll see thousands of whiners posts about the latest coolest way for warlocks to own us, it seems almost to be an class attribute for them (owning mage 300). But i have never seen any mage complaining about rogues, or maybe like any other class, the very "sportive" spirits of noobs waiting games to land at Light's Hope Chapel or else.

Why do we think that rogues are dead meat? before casting fire dot prevent vanish, spam our well known AE rank 1 to quickly spot cloaked enemy; if not, go away, the rogue is likely to run after, which still can be avoided by an AE rk 1 if we are not sure about the distance left with the rogue. Once he is visible, its very quick: nova frost, blink, sheep, re sheep in case of desheep, then fireball, pom + pyroblast, fireblast, finish with arcane missiles or scorch. And if the mage is not a fresh 60 rookie, he is likely to have some stuff such like the toep, or a template oriented arcan power, which will OS anyone except 6k+ life warriors;

The only thing is not to be counterspell by another caster or OS from distance like hunters, but that rogues and pallys cant do; unlike pallys who have bubbles and heals, rogues cant do nothing but spectate their own deaths;

So here it is, I put rogue as the definitively easiest fight for mage

Yeah locks are gonna get the nerf bat HARD like a homerun and we all know it; but really as of now 2.0.10 the class that really needs a DPS/PVE/PVP (dunno which...) buff is da hunter.


I dont know maybe the mages I fought were that bad, but a real rogue waits until you are out of mana hehe, but then a careful mage wouldnt waste all his mana on a contested territory.

Yes a Rank 1 fireball spell does indeed screws vanish off, but the situation described is different. You spotted the rogue first.
There are many tools at the rogue disposal that screws a mage, provided the mage knows how to use em.
1. 2/2 points on sprint from the rogue's talent improved sprint breaks snares (frost nova)
2. a Seal fate build will generally kill a mage with less than 3500 hp with 3 or 4 hits.

Maybe the rogues you fought were sword rogues because they are generally the rogues that have more trouble with mages; and any sane rogue will just let the mage spam IAE.

I have fought 2 mages once on the eastern plaguelands and I swear they were easy kills, but then that really depends a lot of the talents build and if they are rookie or not...


Also on the Burning Crusade, Garrte (a rogue skill) will silence the target for 4 seconds, combine that with kick, gouge, and cloak of shadows, the cloth classes will be easier kills for rogues.

a) you never farm till you OOM in contested territory. you do that on pve server. on pvp, you ALWAYS regen at half mana.
b)IAE Rank1 uses so little mana, i can spam it one hour before i go oom
c) deep frost mage should not worry about you breaking his root. we rest cooldown.
c) 1 little gem + potion and i am back 3-4K mana which is enough to poop into a rogues AND warriors face.

Krokro described a well pvp built mage, with arcane / fire build + trnkets for maximum burst. but even without that, we can kite you to death. Blind sucks though. Good rogues use blind. and THAT gives them a tiny little send of freedom. they blind when we Nova (becuase we have to be close) and thus screw the whole nova process, WITHOUT needing to break the ice actually.

i have seen good rogues, yes. but either they are very skilled, or they can even jump me. if they are solo, they are prolly dead, except if uber geared so they can burst DMG out before i recover and react.

My point is that the rogues has more tools at his disposal when fighting clothies than other classes.

Trust me, some mages goes OOM when farming, and not all mages are that smart on using level 1 IAE heh

Yes, I forgot to mention blind too, it actually gives us rogue another ambush unless mages iceblocks.


EDIT: I think we shouldn't talk about fights lol, it goes all too situational, specs, skills.

Naklin wrote:

a) you never farm till you OOM in contested territory. you do that on pve server.

+1

I do hope we are not talking about the very situation of a mage oom when farming with no mana stone, no potion and evocation on cooldown; that can happen but quite unlikely in a contested territory

fire dot prevent vanish --> TBC cloak of shadow

i can't wait till ass rape fest

Quote :

I do hope we are not talking about the very situation of a mage oom when farming with no mana stone, no potion and evocation on cooldown; that can happen but quite unlikely in a contested territory

there are noobs for everything in this game.
i have seen *sigh* mages farm till they oom and no stone etc in hearthglen. making 2 AOE pulls without restoring stone + mana. showoff is nice, but any decent mage can aoe hearthglen, even WITH the elite in the lumber mill, and even 2 pulls. but then ALL your cooldowns are popped, and they wonder why that rogue who was farming the elites in the tower, pops out and ganks them.

nice walking back from the graveyard in Tirisfal Glades...lol
(WPL REALLY needs a graveyard. hearthglen is the riskiest spot to farm (and one of the most rewarding ones for a mage going AOE) because you spend 4-6 minutes running back to your corps across a whole map, only to possibly get re-ganked again)

so... this thread was about matchups... i think we are getting to the point deadanus and me made earlier. except for some strange patches which over power a class (see LOCKS), most classes can ALWAYS kill another class, depending on the player, the skill and the situation they are in, and who has the opener / element of surprise.

Ownage is posting on many threads about the inbalance of gear in this game at level 60. I have to disagree with him.
Yes, people who spend insane hours farming, grindin and raiding, WILL get insanely good gear. But lets face it, that gear IS RAID oriented. my mage has a very considerable DMG output. but i have easy 2000 HP less than a pvp geared mage. Grind pvp rank and get good gear. its actually not that hard. even the pvp blues are very good. you can equip your char with standard 5 man instance things and crafted objects, that make your toon a VERY fiery adversary in pvp. you just need to find the combination to even out your stats, knowing which attributes to go for first and where to set your priorities.
If you dont play the game at all almost, then i dont care for you to whine that you have worse gear. you wanna play 2 hours a week, but pwn everybody, play doom and input a god code in the console. this IS a MMO, which is like work. i work harder than you, i get a higher reward.
i know low-level toon pvp is fun. but gear difference is HEAVILY noted there as well. if i would go with my hunter (high 40s now) into BG in vanilla mode, i get totally pwned. i have to UBERtwink him in order to stay competitive. that means END-GAME enchants on weps (+15 /+25 AGI, or fiery if fast weps) and on gear, and brutal blueys as well as some low level epics (read also as Hurricane bow, level 48 ). Because when i inspect and see other lobies, thats what i am facing. so dont get all whiney, just because someone else who spent way more time in bg or raiding pwnz you a while in bg.
you can still do very good without raid gear (which, i repeat, isn't all that great for bg), and if you do bg's well enough, you eventually get high rank gear. a lvl 13/14 geared mage or hunter, doesn't need to go to MC or BWL..... they might need 1 -2 drops off AQ40.... but they stay f*cking competitive inside NAXX (we have them with THAT gear.. pvp geared only) for the dps, and they have WAY more sta. they pop more mana potions because they go burst, and have less mana (pvp downside), but they stay in the game. so nobody shouldn't tell me pvp gear aint no good and at 60 the game is unbalanced, just because some people have a raidspot and other simply dont wanna spend that time in-game raiding.

my 2 cents, i slept bad.

OMG
LOOK!!!! it's a mage with T10!!!!! it's Naklin! he spent 10hours a day for 3 months farming that set! you're so cool, can I be your friend?

i wish i had T10.... ROFL.
and i dont have any set complete. not one single one. never tried.
10 hours a day i can't make. i play the evenings. not every evening.
thats it. you can flame all you want, but you dont give me any counter argument yet.
i would love to hear your reply to it. i heard you whine, which is ok, i also whine about stuff that pisses me off. but like i said. i don't think pvpers suffer so hard, compared to raiders.
who suffers is the "occasional" (by that i mean 4 hours A WEEK) player, compared to a regular player (2 hours a day, or a little more, but then not every day).
but like i said. you name me ONE SINGLE real MMORPG, where perseverance is NOT rewarded, and where the "i play 2 hours / week" guy has the right to totally pwn with gear or without, his opponents, and i will be surprised. ALL MMORPG's reward playtime. thats how they make money!
some its faction grind (wow), some its a different type of grind / playtime dedication. but you simply can't expect to not get raped if you log on for 1hour a day / week.

thats what HALO and the XBOX are for.

life....

ownage (AKA irvin) --> update your sig noob...

none of this matters

warlocks are already the best for pvp 1 on 1 (similar gearwise)

in 2.0x they will be uber after getting 41 point talents and will destroy ALL

in BC at L70 hopefully it will balance out

in BC stamina ftw

oh and the priest v anything .... hmm shadowpriest with +dmg gear are very difficult to beat (apart from by SL Locks)

it should be warrior V anthing since poor warriors(even Fury) are the most nerfed class for PVP

/bump on that post.
seems like blizz likes his warriors to be tanks...
/moo

warriors are tanks !

/bump bump

mages are like a portable bakery

OK.... this one was easy . . .

Blizzard did not really made the game to be balanced on 1v1 fights, some classes will just dominate another( in the case of a lock vs druid for example)
However, on a group fight you mix a druid with any other class and your probabilty to win will be tremendous; Duels and 1v1 fights does not glorifies many of the classes.


We rogues get the shaft on all group fights.

you kidding me? sap is overpower in a team fight!

and to naklin, you're right, there's not one mmo in the market now that promote skills against grinding. That doesn't make it ok. just because every national back in the days use slave doesn't make slavery ok either.

anyway I guess the point is: just felt unfair that good players have to forced to grind like the no-life-ers that can play 24/7 and be beaten by them not by skills but by pure brute force of stats. and yes that's a whine.

Gears should give a toon advantage but not overpower advantage where a noob can spam one button and win no matter what. that's lineage 2 and other mmo, not wow. yes that's a whine too.

and NO deadanus, I'm not changing my sig untill I know what scarlet monks do. lol

i do pwn in bgs, while undergeared, and as a mage with no sta...... talentbuild + skill.
its harder a bit?
yes. but its anyways a combination of talentbuild / skill / gear


unfair that mmo are like this. i dont find it unfair. like i said, its a persistent world. and thats one of the effects.
and there is no way to be uber-geared with no time investment (except in bg. i find it way easier than other people to get to R14)

last note: you might be interested in http://www.there.com

i looked up mmos last night and tried some, to see if i could find one that would not reward player grind. there ya go. its called THERE.
it fits the description of the things you wish. lol ^^

ownage (AKA irvin), you are a sad little cocky man

"ownage (AKA irvin), you are a sad little cocky man "

come to think about it, I better change it, I maybe a succubus someday, lol