There's been a lot of interest these days in raiding DS. So much, that it's starting to become a problem. On Tuesdays we have WAY too many people wanting to raid 10 man, but not enough for a 25 man. Then on Wednesday/Saturday(the other appointed raid times) we barely have enough people to run it. This is starting to cause of a bit of animosity between people who always show up on time, geared and gemmed with the people who are more casual and want to raid.

Everybody wants a seat, and nobody likes to be rejected. Worse yet, nobody likes to be rejected then used as a filler for days when we don't have enough people. Everybody has a different idea about what is fair and what isn't.

In my experience in guilds before, raids had similar problems. The way we dealt with it before though was to have the more seasoned raiders deal with the raid bosses first to figure out the mechanics of them and reach a high level of gear. Once the bosses were able to be downed easily enough, we'd start switching people in and out and farm the instance for gear for our other guild members.

We are going to do the same here in TCW for our guild members. Bosses 1-4 in DS can now be killed easily, but we are still working on 5-8. The best way proposed is to have a few experienced raiders take some of the other guild members through 1-4 on Tuesday and help them gear/get experience. Then the regular team will run 5-8 on Wednesday/Saturday. Once 5-8 mechanics are figured out, we'll do a switch. 1-4 will change to Heroic and 5-8 Normal for farming.

Everybody who wants to come should note that this is PvE and PvE gear is required to kill PvE bosses. Players will not be accepted who are wearing PvP gear. If you want to raid, you are expected to put in an effort. Green or blue geared players will only wipe the raid. An ilvl 378 is the minimum gemmed and enchanted. LFR is a must to learn the boss mechanics and people must have YY installed for communication. For dps, 15-20k dps is pretty standard and easily achievable. Anything under this will only hinder the raid members and cause more stress on the healers/tank thus causing wipes. If you can not produce this much dps, please check some guides online to learn your class better, ie. what to gem/enchant/rotation/etc...

One more thing to note, ALL decisions made are made as a group, including myself, Bolomas(Smallearth), Urubaen(Sandre), Malice, Gruumsh, Mytank, Avanti, and Blackhorn. If you have a problem with anything please do not single Malice out. Her part in the decision making is as much as everybody elses'. You can always talk to one of us for help or clarification.

Cromm

Yeah! No picking on Malice!!

Since we've had so many new members recently, there may be enough to form another raid by yourself. Please don't be sour if you dont get to be in the main raid now. Our guild is pretty good about trying its best to help new guildies. So don't worry, you'll get your turn. If you can't wait then form your own raid or go try raiding with the locals.

PEACE!!

(btw is everyone's wow working fine??? o.O)

Verilus wrote:

If you can't wait then form your own raid or go try raiding with the locals.

I think it's easier said than done. The way I see it, you're side-stepping the issue here. The players that lack the gear already lack the dedication and organization. A 10 man group of 378 gear level players, are without doubt, not going to succeed. I think the main issue at hand here is to divide the 'All-Star' group. I understand that the regular raiders would hate that, but in the long run, this is just going to come back and bite you in the arse. Of course, this would have to be after sufficient amount of farming as mentioned by Crom above.

Or, just form a 25 man group raid once and for all. There's a high chance you'd have to recruit chinese players, but so what? Everybody's satisfied.

Also, I'm honored you've included me in your list Crom. Here's a cow to reward you:

Cheers. If you've got problems concerning this, you can always post on Wowhead. Always good to have more feedback.

No, I meant no harm by saying to try grouping with locals =P I guess I'm just an over casual gamer. But really...being impatient isn't gonna help. Just gotta work around it and relaxxx

Problem with making two groups is that we lack the healers for it. Tanks can also sometimes be an issue. 25 man is out of the question atm, seeing how people aren't online consistently enough. But, hopefully with more people having the opportunity to raid, the more often they log in. Then it may be possible to run a 25 man.

We have done one 25 man before in DS, downed the first boss. But people didn't have the gear/exp for the other bosses.

25man
Never enough people on line or when there is enough (we've had enough online ONE time in 6 months of ppl who actually wanted to raid) Plus many people have to leave for kids, works, spouse aggro etc (and this is totally understandable) So 25man unfortunately a no go.

10man
Too many people to get everyone in. Thank you again to our vets who willingly gave up their seat for a new raider to try out. So single 10man leaves too many people out.

2x 10man
Not enough healers (not even close, black and I are the only geared players dedicated completely to a healing spec in the entire guild, all others are off spec or under geared or heal only in pvp) We've recently found another healer tho and they are working on gearing up. Solution Pending

10man - Bosses divided by 4s
Not perfect but our best solution we have so far. Everyone gets a chance. Everyone gets gear. And IF we can get enough HEALERS we can change to the 2x 10man.

NOTE
We tried last night. It went quite well. Thank you to Mytank, Crom and Smallearth for giving up their seat for new raiders.

Plus Black and I would occasionally like a break from healing. As of now we MUST go to EVERY raid for EVERY stage or there's not enough healing. We dont' want to burn out and leave the guild with ZERO healers.

I'd also like to reiterate the point raised by Malice above in regard to healers. Basically, a lack of healers is THE major reason why we cannot possibly field two full 10-man groups or a 25-man group at this time. We sometimes have the numbers for dps and tanks to make two 10-man raids/a 25-man raid, but we always lack healers. Basically, we need 6 people (3 more than we have at present) willing to heal regularly before we can run either option.

Anyway, even 1 more healer would be great. Both Mal and I do enjoy raiding, but it would be nice to be able to take a break sometimes. I'm not only willing to share my regular healing spot with another regular healer but actually looking forward to being able to do so.

So, please break out your healers and gear up to join us in the raid. Healing rocks!

This is all fine for me, understood etc

But for some reason at some point I seem too have became labelled a "new raider" :/ am I a new raider really? I have been with you doing BWD, BOT, THRONE, BH, Firelands and the last few bosses of DS (because, as Cromm said, Wed and Sat are less busy)


Anyways, I have started to do LFR now. I think the progress will be very slow on upgrades ( I am already ilvl 377 though) but it's ace fun (got 2! the other day (thanks Tim for the gloves . The trinket was not really useable by me)

I have also got my healer up to speed now Ilvl is 365 currently, just need a few Twilight drops. Then I can try healing role (did firelands run on Monday, don't think I was too bad )

Don't worry, Enea, we know you're not a new raider and have plenty of experience. The main reason for the current group of "regulars" is actually just that so many people went on holiday during the christmas/new year/spring festival period so the ones who ended up in the raids were just whoever was available. Those people ended up in a relatively regular group.

"New raider" is not really accurate. It's just a convenient term to group together those who are not so well-geared due to the break or due to new characters.

Basically, as long as you can keep people alive as a healer (hps 15k?), keep aggro and not die as a tank (~200k HP, good parry/dodge/block), and do raid dps of around 18k as DPS, then you won't have much trouble for the first 4 bosses of Dragon Soul. However, bosses 5-8 of Dragon Soul require more healing, tougher tanks and about 24k dps, which is why it has taken us so long to get to this stage.

Anyway, judging from our run last night with about 4 non-regulars, gearing up will be very fast as most of the regulars are already fully geared from the first four bosses.

And My 2 cents:

Clearly what TCW did this Tuesday was very good - mix veterans with ones.
With my warlock Evilyn I do not hurry, there is place, there is place if not then not - that's life.
Also requirements are good - geared, gemmed & enchanted is normal standard - and for the gear/skill mix 20K are acceptable

And call to our dozens of shammies -- GO HEALING

And to spouse aggro i only say: Spouse PvP is the easiest way to drop all aggro

master_Blackhorn"However, bosses 5-8 of Dragon Soul require more healing, tougher tanks and about [color=red]24k dps, which is why it has taken us so long to get to this stage. [/quote]

Last week for the last boss most dps were doing 38-41k dps except for one undergeared doing 30k dps and we couldn't down him because of lack of dps.

Those bosses are really unforgiving dps wise.

master_Blackhorn wrote:

However, bosses 5-8 of Dragon Soul require more healing, tougher tanks and about 24k dps, which is why it has taken us so long to get to this stage.

Last week for the last boss most dps were doing 38-41k dps except for one undergeared doing 30k dps and we couldn't down him because of lack of dps.

Those bosses are really unforgiving dps wise and even regulars are far from overgearing the raid. Consider a full lfr set the entry level gear for DS.

Bottom line, if you want to raid you need to be prepared for it.

LFR/valor/justice/new 5-man Dg's are all quick and easy ways to get yourself some pretty decent gear. Once you get those pieces you can attempt the raid bosses in DS. Really can't just skip those and go straight to the raid.

Note to Enea: I don't think anybody considers you a new raider man. But you've definitely got a lot of work to do on gearing yourself back up since FL.

Bolo,

Just remember for those dps numbers that we have lots of buffs from the 4 aspects helping us out so our actual dps would be much lower than that. Actually, many of the last 4 bosses are like that, giving inflated numbers. I suggested 24k as baseline to go on, although it may not be totally accurate.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing more new faces, especially healers.

OK Guys.

I just did a raid on thursday with people that doesn't have a CD

The healer i have got are the following:
Nis - Druid
Lavaburst - SM
Donnerwetter - SM

well those u could say are alt... but we can use them for the 2nd team if we are forming it. And we managed ok