In the past month or two since Timeless Isle has been the only spot for progressing our characters, I've been hearing many people complain about the difficulty of doing anything due to constant ganking by alliance.

After seeing a couple of threads about people moving of their own accord to servers without foreigners to escape ganking makes this a bigger issue. If even the PVP players are not enjoying the world pvp, then its definitely time to start thinking about a change.

Therefore, I'm going to suggest two things.
1. Lets organise a guild meeting on the YY Guild Channel to discuss this and any other issues (problems with how guild is running, how we can improve, etc). I suggest we aim for a meeting on Saturday 23rd November, starting at 9pm. Please let me know any issues people would like to discuss.
2. Please leave your opinions below regarding the idea of shifting to a PVE server, or shifting to a Horde-biased PVP server

Also, if anyone knows if we can shift the guild and everyone in it in one go, then also let me know as that would be way easier than any other way.

Looking forward to hearing your opinions. I, personally, am happy to shift to either PVE or Horde-biased PVP servers.

Blackhorn

Poll up at http://strawpoll.me/752586

my only request is name the new guild Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus Fans Club, and i design the new tabard

Warmaster_Blackhorn wrote:

If even the PVP players are not enjoying the world pvp, then its definitely time to start thinking about a change.

Who are this PVP players, they need to receive some lap dancing from the guild muse and sexiest orc.

Recently alliance players in Alterac are getting more aggressive, questing in Timeless at peak times would most usually result on getting gank, and players just getting their gear wont have any chance to those 1million life DKs running around.

I would suggest a few pointers while you guys are discussing the server transfer:
1. Party with horde players, you dont need to actually whisper them in Chinese, just invite them most will join you, you can also shout in /1 求组做任务的团队(invite for questers), 求组刷声望(invite for rep grinders)
2. Dont engage alliance players if you see them hitting some NPC or players, most time it would be nice to hit them but defintely 3 or more alliance will see you and help him hit.
3. Ask in guild for help, I for one likes to gank in world pvp some alliance, at peak i take some friends(3-4) and go to timesless to fight with the alliance, but i am(vaze, 老外先生) usually on at peak times which is usually good and bad, but im sure most pvp players in the guild will help if someone asks.

None of the above suggestions will work for everyone, but we are the underdog in this server and being creative is the way to survive, also remember we are a guild so dont be shy to ask for help!
All in all, its a PVP server with alliance heavy population so this things are to be expected, either you gank them back or do your quest and party with other questers.

For the topic of transferring servers, I would suggest going to a Horde biased server because PVE servers tend to be really boring, where horde and alliance are friends and hold hands while trying to steal mobs/minerals from one another:D

Just started playing again on a random PvE server with my wife, but she's pretty bad so PvP might be a slight turn off. Would be cool to join you guys again though, so looking forward to seeing how this turns out!

Hey Guys,

i think the technical way for guld transfer is the same as in europe where i have a little exp with.

You can start as a guildleader(only) the guildtransfer: Achievements, guildbank will be transfered incl. the guildname as far is not already in use on the new server. On actual server your guild is still exist but would be setted back to lvl1 incl. all achivements 7th 8th bank tresor (or how ever named).

Guildmembers will get a message with the option to follow the guild. Same price as any other servertranses for each character on your account. (Blizz:"  : MONEY MONEY MONEY").
You would be transferred directly in to the guild no reinvite neccessary. If you transfer, care about your gold transfercap according to your charcter lvl.

A wall of text, sense: No Guildtransfer in one go possible....

I hope and think in china the same.

I think thats all

Sounds like its not as difficult as I thought if moving the guild means every guild member is invited to move at the same time.

Regarding the choice of server, I've been looking through the options and the following are probably decent choices. Sadly most PVE servers are either too small, are too focused on one faction or locked (CN10 options). However, there may be options with Connected Realms if they happen in China. Therefore, most of the servers below are PVP ones with more Horde than Alliance, which should reduce ganking, but still allow our PVP players to actually do bgs and the like.

Zone 1 PVP - 利刃之拳 (4189 players, 58% Horde)
Zone 3 PVP - 格雷迈恩 (8812 players, 65% Horde)
Zone 5 PVE - 亚雷戈斯 (4919 players, 75% Horde)
Zone 5 PVP - 厄祖玛特 (8457 players, 65% Horde)
Zone 10 PVP - 兰娜瑟尔 (8225 players, 55% Horde)

Warmaster_Blackhorn wrote:

Sounds like its not as difficult as I thought if moving the guild means every guild member is invited to move at the same time.

Regarding the choice of server, I've been looking through the options and the following are probably decent choices. Sadly most PVE servers are either too small, are too focused on one faction or locked (CN10 options). However, there may be options with Connected Realms if they happen in China. Therefore, most of the servers below are PVP ones with more Horde than Alliance, which should reduce ganking, but still allow our PVP players to actually do bgs and the like.

Zone 1 PVP - 利刃之拳 (4189 players, 58% Horde)
Zone 3 PVP - 格雷迈恩 (8812 players, 65% Horde)
Zone 5 PVE - 亚雷戈斯 (4919 players, 75% Horde)
Zone 5 PVP - 厄祖玛特 (8457 players, 65% Horde)
Zone 10  PVP - 兰娜瑟尔  (8225 players, 55% Horde)

Thats a nice work black, although i'm pretty sure bg is composed from server group, so pve or pvp it doesn't really matter.

In my opinion, random bg is the pvp of lfr, it is composed of "people who are afk" + "people who are screwing around" + "someone who will wipe the raid". Therefore for me the only form of "pvp" is arena and rated battleground, other than that its meh.

World pvp/ ganking ? lol, its more like a sort of bullying for ppl who can't or won't do arena and rbg properly, does anyone who gank or ambush you usually have same hp, same gear, or even the same number ?

The "objective" of finding a new server is to avoid ganking, then why would you guys move to another pvp server ? or it is because you want to do the ganking now instead of being gank ? then yea if that is the answer definetely you guys should move to a pvp server where your faction is the majority.

I don't really care about faction or stuff, all I'm suggest is find a solid server with active community so it will be easier to buy stuff from AH, getting PUG, joining gold raid, etc. As for pve or pvp, try to think what is the objective you guys want to achieve.

The only issue with PVE servers is that they're either low population or totally full. Very hard to find a medium population one, I think. I agree that the ganking style of world pvp is basically bullying and I really noticed that today trying to use Timeless Isle on an undergeared toon.

Being able to totally remove the chance of ganking would be awesome, but even changing to a Horde-dominated PVP server would mean support is always close by.

Finding an active community and auction house is a tough one, but is actually pretty important. I was aiming for at least a medium pop server for that reason.

Blackhorn

Poll for moving is at http://strawpoll.me/752586

I cant seem to get in-game at the moment I keep getting the your character isnt found bullshit so ill say my piece here;

I have been in the guild for about a year and have to say that in my opinion world pvp is not pvp but as people have already said, bullying. AV is full of players who don't want an even fight or even a fight they just want to one-shot someone who cant defend themself.

Someone has also mentioned that pve servers are boring due to people working together or fighting only over nodes, you can at anytime activate pvp its just you cant attack a player that doesn't agree to it by also activating pvp so its reciprocal.

PVP is not about killing an afk player ganking a char with half your health, its an agreed battle and as such should take place on somewhat even terms.

My vote is definate move to a pve server

The queue to get into Alterac Mountains right now is about 30 minutes, (which is another reason to consider moving) but I want to say I am absolutely in favor of moving to PVE. The game is simply not enjoyable when you can't play it for fear of constant, repeated ganking by overwhelming numbers. I want to play for fun, not frustration.

Despite the reluctance of many to move, I'm afraid it's only a matter of time before they do. I've been on three separate PvP servers in the past (暴风祭坛, 红龙军团, 达纳斯), and all three, though once somewhat even faction-wise, are now deserted on one faction. This is how it has been for the vast majority of PvP servers since Blizzard allowed faction and server transfers -- the trend for one faction to become deserted is irreversible and inevitable. And once the large guilds move, there will be a domino effect.

Personally, I won't be sticking around before the expansion hits. I want to enjoy my time. If there really are no high population PvE servers that aren't locked, then I'd suggest Red Dragonflight (红龙军团), which has a "High" population, yet no queues, and is essentially 100:1 Horde: Alliance (note that prior to MoP, the server was 85:15 H:A). Of course, a PvE server would be the best option.

On a PVE server, those who wish to PVP still can, by joining battlegrounds or flagging for PVP. They can't gank anyone anymore, but frankly I don't want to be in the same guild as people who do that.

Food for thought: we join Alliance. New new races, quests, new cities, new experience. Shake things up a bit.

^^never be an ally

What is the difference between CN1, 2, 3... Etc?

IMO i would prefer PVE server, but i'm not really too worried either way.

I think a lot of the older commom problem associated with PVE servers were removed when they introduced taggable rares and the "Quest Mob" flag on important Quest NPC that can just be tagged now to obtain quest, even if not in group etc.

I agree with above that PVP on timeless isle is NOT PvP. It is also not fun. What worries me is that if 6.0 heads in the same direction then levelling to 100 will but just as unfun.

The biggest issue i have is that i really don't want to split up the guild.. the voting, last i looked, was almost 50/50.. such a dilema!

I'm curious why people are voting no. Is the transfer fee really unaffordable for so many people? Do they enjoy open PVP so much that joining PVP battles from the PVE server still can't satisfy them? Or do they just like being able to gank people anytime?

Looking at the results so far, moving to a new server is probably happening. Even it means separating into two guilds, there are clearly enough players who aren't having fun on the current, Alliance-biased server.

As for the next step, I would personally vote for a PvE server, just because I haven't had any "good" world PvP in a while. However, Blackhorn has been keeping the Crazy Waiguorens together, so I'll go with whatever he chooses.

Would anyone who voted no tell us why?

Well, we had the guild meeting on Saturday night and the 20 people who showed up discussed the benefits and downsides to moving to a new server. Overall, the more vocal people were in favour of moving, but the voting results for the 20 people at the meeting showed an exact 50/50 split. Therefore, a preliminary decision to stay where we are was passed.

An incomplete list of the reasoning is as follows (I should have posted this on Saturday night):

FOR MOVING

• Frustration (and sometimes inability to play) from too much ganking, affecting fun levels (especially for those with many alts)
  
• Queues to sign in every night
  

AGAINST MOVING

• High cost (especially for those with many alts)
  
• Friends and connections outside the guild would be left behind
  
• The guild would almost definitely see a split
  

Those are the basic reasons everyone gave in the meeting. From my understanding, the people who want to move are more outspoken because they're the ones who are having less fun. Although I originally thought that the default decision should be to stay, I'm actually thinking the opposite now. Ganking is bullying and bullying can really destroy fun for those targeted. In general, the best way to beat bullying is to remove yourself to an environment where it doesn't exist, and therefore, your enjoyment of the game should increase.

I'm going to leave the poll up until next Saturday. Please encourage everyone to vote and we'll make a final decision at that stage. If the guild votes to move, then possible server destinations other than those mentioned above are welcome. If we don't move, I hope that everyone will work together as a guild (as mentioned by HolyYo in the 3rd post) to prevent ganking as much as possible.

Enea wrote:

What is the difference between CN1, 2, 3... Etc?

The zone determines where the server is based. I only know CN1 and CN2 (Shanghai and Beijing respectively). I think CN3 is out west somewhere, CN5 is also Shanghai, and CN10 is down south? Judging by ping from Shanghai, only CN2 is not on China Telecom.

So, potentially, moving to a diff CN server could increase my ping significantly?

I play on CN1 and CN3 and get <6ms ping times on both. I don't think there is any real difference.

I have 3 90s on Brann on CN3, a medium-population PVE server with about 7 other English speakers in my guild, so that is my vote.

Enea wrote:

So, potentially, moving to a diff CN server could increase my ping significantly?

I tried logging in to CN3, CN5 and CN10 and my ping stayed at 6-15ms for all three. I doubt it makes much difference. Only CN2 would cause China Telecom customers to experience issues. It doesn't seems to be about distance so much as network.

chinajoe wrote:

I have 3 90s on Brann on CN3, a medium-population PVE server with about 7 other English speakers in my guild, so that is my vote.

The only issue I would have with Brann is that its population is only 1,900 or so (according to loyogou.com). The lower population would usually mean that the economy is not too strong and finding pug groups/gold raids would be difficult and many members enjoy those.

As long as its a decently-populated Horde server, then I don't really mind which one we choose.

Let me introduce you guys to my new buddy, (Censur plus http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/census-plus), referred by http://www.warcraftrealms.com/index.php.

Last night, a chinese dude give me this link for chinese server census, http://www.loyogou.com/game/wow/static/population.html (idk if its safe site, i hope so)

As a reward for my epic posts, I once again demand the authority to design the new tabard or re-design the old tabard (if we're not moving, i'm fine either way i just want to get a cool transmog).

The poll doesn't seem trustworthy. I tested it, and was able to vote multiple times without even using a proxy. The results (at 70 total votes) strongly reflect manipulation -- and from both sides. I think having an unbiased and trustworthy "poll-taker" privately take votes from guild members would be the best course of action.

i thought communism rules here ? not democracy

i second that this poll can't be trusted, because u can vote multiple times.
it can be used just for general information, not for decision.
we can do forum poll, not anonymous.

the main thing that worries me that guild will split apart, but it will happen anyway as far as i can see, so it doesn't matter anymore to me.

the other thing somebody told about guild transfer, so if that happens, ppl who stay will be thrown out of the boat? And if to make another guild even with the same name will be already different.

i like our guild, i have very good memories of 2011 year when Malice run some guild activities, which was fun, and it still means a lot to me, so i dont want to leave it.  But, at the same time, i don't want to transfer to PVE server, i like world pvp with its flaws (i.e. ganking, i was ganked  A LOT as a priest! ), without these spontaneous unpredictable things wow will loose something important for me.

One of the best memories about ganking was lvling my 1st hunter on another pvp server in Stranglethorn area, where ganking and camping was insane, so needed to choose ur paths very clever, it made my lvling very intense, and i still remember it, was very nice experience after all.

So, that's my 2 cents.

Btw, Blackhorn, any news on interview about our guild?

Okay, it does seem like a pretty stupid poll, doesn't it. I doubt we have that many active people playing the game these days...

Anyway, for a move, given the ease of inviting realID friends, perhaps a good option rather than moving is to create a cross-server community. The only things that would be disallowed that way are the most current tier of normal and heroic mode raids, and maybe rbgs? We could at least group up for 5-mans, stuff on Timeless Isle, flex raids, etc.

Anyway, although I'm probably slightly biased towards moving to help people get away from bullying, I'm pretty sure the guild would be split and that would definitely be a bad thing considering how many years it took for the foreign community to get together. We'd really need pretty much unanimous agreement from all active players to move(or at least 75%), otherwise the community would end up worse off than it currently is.

sleepwholelife wrote:

Btw, Blackhorn, any news on interview about our guild?

Nothing yet. They were supposed to email me, but I haven't received anything.