Dear all,

I will post this in the general area of the forum, because this will concern ALL foreigners on ALL servers (1-9).
You can now transfer characters across all realmlists (at least i can).

I have seen many foreigners playing WoW in China now. All are lustered in rather smaller groups here and there, scattered around the vast lands of Azeroth (ok, less epic, around different realms).
I have met many players who are merely casual, many players who only pvp, and many who like and enjoy pve and have no chance in hell to ever see the beautiful and amazing pve content of WoW (it IS a pve game, for PVP, go Guildwars).

My current guild & raidstatus is far to advanced to welcome new players in the raid. As our original guild broke apart after having completed almost every first down on our server, some friends and myself saw ourselves forced to join the 2nd best raid available.
I don't see a big future with this raid, because they lack willpower, skill and are handicapped by bad leadership.

With Wrath of the Lich King (WLK from here on) around the corner, and hopefully hitting us around X-Mas - Chinese new year, it is safe for me to announce what some of us have been planning for quite a while now.

We will create a new guild once WLK hits the shelves. Name has to be defined yet.
Sadly, that guild will be created on my current server, Area 4 - 奥特兰克 (ao te lan ke). I know most foreigners are on other servers. Being aware of that, my reasons for not switching to the highest foreigner count realm is simple: reputation.
The current status some of us on this server are having, allows us to be more than "just another character".
Up until now, we have slowly started to gather the remaining best players from our realm that have been around for a long time. All of them agreed to follow us and recreate the spirit of our original Guild, to go for the Boss-Down.
We value experience over anything, so most of these people have been around since Onixya first allowed us to pinch her butt and since Ragnaros was sent back to that clumpy lava he came from.
Nonetheless, we are taking in newer players as WoW is constantly growing, and anyone who shows a learning curve in skill is more than welcome. Most important is the spirit. Above everything else, loyalty and group spirit.

The guild WILL BE mixed. This means there WILL be foreigners AND Chinese. And people will write in whatever language they chose to. It is up to each and everyone of our members to chose his language of choice, always knowing that some people might not understand them, so depending on who you talk to, both sides will do an effort.
Chinese is not rocket science, it comes naturally with the game, and it is not a handicap to NOT know chinese. As long as some of us can mediate, all is ok.

I could fill up the guild with all chinese, and just keep the 3-4 foreigners here who are PVE orientated, yet during my "visits" to other realms i have met so many foreigners who wish to see the games true beautiful content, yet won't have a chance to due to the size of their guild.
I am hereby inviting every foreigner who does wish to go PVE and Raiding to join in, and i WILL give them a preferred place, if they are willing to do the effort.
Every casual player or purely PVP orientated character is welcome as well, yet should state so beforehand, as we are trying to get a raidroster beforehand.
It is still a while to go until WLK, but it is a tough choice to make for many.
If i see that most people come all from the same server, i won't ask them to transfer characters, depending on the amount of people, if it seems easier to transfer the chars from our server to theirs.

I am not asking anyone to join "yet another guikd / raid", but actually asking them to be part in what will become either the top guild on at least a realm, if not a server, or nothing. The feeling of being the first ones among thousands of players to down a certain boss, the privilege to see content which less than 3% of the global WoW population has seen and the feeling of achieving that as a group.

I know some people around the foreigner "community" might dislike Dead (aka Deadanus) or me, Nak (aka Naklin), due to some flaming posts or whatever reason. I don't really care. We do compensate with skill and with setting the standard for other raids to follow. we are neither Devils nor mean people, but we do expect clean and good progressive raids.
There is always fun and laughter, and never more than with a mixed group of foreigners and chinese, but unless something is on farm and in "auto-mode", there wont be any "look look, this place looks soo funny... check what happens if i hit this thing... oooops.... wipe!" and chaotic running around.... (trust me, i have seen that).

a progressive raid only works if every member helps and gives input to improve. Leadership is not a dictatorship and constructive criticism is welcome and encouraged. It tells us a lot about players.

anyways, i am writing a book again.....
If people want to raid, want to see endgame content, feel free to post here.
Any server, any region. We will see how we handle this. Tired of seeing people scattered.

And to make things clear again: No, we are not dreaming, Yes, we will pwn a realm, and hopefully a server. But we need dedicated people.

Nak

Character Profile (please keep in mind the profile page is always the last logout, so sometimes i logout with a weird build or gear depending on what i was doing):
http://cn.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Alterac+Mountains&n=Naklin

I played up to a level 70 NE Hunter and about 45+ NE Rogue on one of the Chinese servers. I used to play with my girlfriend (who is Chinese), but gave up after a while since I couldn't really get into the end game content without her holding my hand thru raids. I can understand some basic Chinese characters, but certainly not enough for a raid.

In addition, the server I was on was woefully lacking in foreigners (I think we play on the Sichuan servers.. 3 or 7?), at least for Alliance.

I still keep up with all the patches and peruse the forums however, and am eager to get back into the game... if you guys are serious, I'd be willing to level up another character, really of any type (except druids... I love looking at the loot my character has equiped) if this thing gets going. Sorry I've only played alliance so far

I guess honestly, if we can transfer characters, I can start now! will keep you posted and I'll check this forum often.

wow, this' seriouse post ... and long...

Hi Naklin

That sounds very good you speak out of my mind. My Chinese Guild(ZAM finished, on way to Hyial) just brock up a few weeks ago. And the new guilds require very serious players, which i can not be under the week

However i am still playing on Maduolan, where the foreigner amiunt is max 6-8people in high season (some old members from COW included).

I remember you are playing on Horde side? If it will be an Alliance Guild i might think about transferring my 2 toons (Warlock lvl.70 and Mage lvl.45).

LvL a new toon is to time consuming for me so if there is a Chance to buy or power lvl a Char i might join you guys there.

Well, I joined up with "the foreigners" on Shanghai 1 server playing the Horde... currently a level 36 undead mage. Guild chat has alot of chatter (in english!) and seems alot of friendly people willing to help us lowbies

Come to Shanghai 1 if you want to play Horde, it's been good so far and the guild is growing everyday!

Definitely interested, I'm tired of not being able to reach cutting edge content. Only got to MC, ZG before BC popped, now I've only just got to step foot in BT. I rolled a troll warrior on your server, name is Instinct.

Hoping the Voodoo Shuffle makes it live, hah.

Allright Naklin i get what your saying, but wouldnt it just be much easier for you to join us at "the foreigners"?...i mean granted atm not much endagme content going on, but we are the largest foreign guild in China and come WOTLK i reckon we will be a serious driving force on our server!

Sometimes you have to put your pride away and join someone else, instead of expecting people to ditch their own reputations and chars so that you can keep yours...

Btw not trying to flame here, but it seems rather wierd to totally disregard the foreigners which is the most active and largest foreign pve guild in china...my tip would be transfer our server, just the community if not the raiding makes it worth it....and there are alot of english speaking chinese people in the guild as well =)

Hope you come sometime Nak, i would love to have some more HC people to game some great WoW with ! HORDE FTW!

Peace

Btw cbf change my sig, the nelf is only for 5v5 JJC once a week, otherwise its all Lostone the tauren druid ! haha

I joined a chinese raiding guild a while ago and because i was the only foreigner, they hooked me up with first dibs on all gear. Within a month, i went from karazhan t4 gear to full T6/sunwell gear. Not a bad deal. Now I am the strongest resto shaman in my server's strongest guild

chinese / mixed guilds rock....
boo on exclusive foreigner guilds.....

/rant

its not xclusive foreingers, load s of chiense peeps in it...but alot of foreigners =P

Think outside the beijing box :-) nah jokes..

Good luck Nak!

"the foreigners"...

Why u called the guild like that ?

Quote :

Server: CN1 诺莫瑞根
Guild: Starlight
Name: 疾风铃音

check the char profile, dead......
i mean, i know phoenix is kinda uncool, but starlight... i just peed my undies..... lol
i feel for you buddy.... i guess you have "display guild tag" disabled in-game...
haha

nah... nuff joking..... lol... i am crying.... tears of joy.... 50000 jokes and control myself not to write them out... but...mwakakakakaka....
ok, seriously...i am off now... or... mwakakakaka

oups.... back on-topic....

Quote :

Allright Naklin i get what your saying, but wouldnt it just be much easier for you to join us at "the foreigners"?...i mean granted atm not much endagme content going on, but we are the largest foreign guild in China and come WOTLK i reckon we will be a serious driving force on our server!

Sometimes you have to put your pride away and join someone else, instead of expecting people to ditch their own reputations and chars so that you can keep yours...

Btw not trying to flame here, but it seems rather wierd to totally disregard the foreigners which is the most active and largest foreign pve guild in china...my tip would be transfer our server, just the community if not the raiding makes it worth it....and there are alot of english speaking chinese people in the guild as well =)

Hope you come sometime Nak, i would love to have some more HC people to game some great WoW with ! HORDE FTW!

Peace

well, well.....

to be honest, i went to the foreigners... and i was happy not to go there with my main. there is (except 3 (three) exceptions) no HC player in TF guild. least not the 5 weeks i spent there. activity at lowest, people having "power highs" because they were officers of some lose 10 man group yet had little idea (again, except 3 exceptions) about game mechanics, and don't take advice.

As for "serious driving force on our server".....
either everyone in TF deleted their char, and you have new people, i don't see that happen. not with either the skill nor dedication nor understanding of game mechanics in game. you can achieve things, but not be a driving force. a driving force means to run point, to be the tip of the wedge, to be top... well, to be reckognised by our whole realm.
and again... it aiiiiiiiiin't gonna happen.

the biggest foreigner guild? yes. sure... does quantity count? no.
Why i suggested (i never forced anyone, nor was it arrogance) to switch over, before (because now we are pretty much full, and most of us already were, are and will be a driving force on our realm, was because this way i could assure mixing up the right amount of "new to HC endgame" (TF guild) players with "HC endgame experienced" players, because here i DO have the needed reputation to pull those people to follow me into the new raid "joint-venture".

thats why.
harder to pull 10-15 HC players who have a HUGE rep on this serv to another one, than pulling 10-15 dudes who have (besides among themselves) little to no rep server-wide (again, the 3 exceptions apply).
I never wanted it just to keep my rep. i prolly build up rep on a new serv before most of TF can type /afk. its because i could have created a raid here, truly composed of people able to first down every boss in game before anyone else on a whole realm, if not realmlist. because we did it, and we will do it again!
See my point?

now, last but not least, as i mentioned earlier, i went there, talked with a whole bunch of people, and actually... well...
community? excuse me?
have you ever wondered how much sense of community you had for a tank of yours to leave guild? must have been nice for him. incredible. the last person to ever be lost in a guild is a tank. how in the hell you lost a tank is a mystery to me (not so much, as i heard the story).
There wasn't any raiding due to exclusive elitism and non-teaming of unguilded members (tip: if you can't team 25 peeps in-guild, then FFS team an outsider!), yet all without basis.
i could understand people refuse to team a random, because if they would be incredibly HC and leet, they might do a kara run in 2h20 or dash through any 10-25 man. but honestly.... any RANDOM player would have raised the bar of general play skill in that groups (least during the time i was there).
especially the leading skills of that hilarious rogue. he should reroll and play a non-combat pet.

so, to sum up.
i ADMIRE (seriously) the fact that you managed to unite so many foreigners. bravo.
i am deeply saddened by the fact that noone was able to organise and/or teach them into play, about the attitudes and the "elitism".

again... bravo...
on our serv we are AFAIK 10 foreigners, and with WLK coming up, me, the last active one raiding, the rest casualing around and PVP/Arena-ing. mostly because we have grinded all instances in game, seriously, all, for so long that it feels nice to have a break.
are we all in one guild? no.
are we happy? yes
do we help each other out at any moment? yes
are we in constant contact? yes (creating a chat channel is as useful as a guild chat)
do we play together? yes, whenever times and schedules apply.
will we probably raid together? yes, if applicable (desire to raid, and skill... sad, but true, i wouldn't team my own mother if she wouldn't know how to play and slow down progression. simple)

so, my best wishes to TF. really. but you had to see my point, since you thought i suggested this for pure ego and keeping my own rep.
i wanted to give those who wished a chance to learn, improve in skill and truly become part of a HC end-game raid who is going to totally beat any other raid of this server in progression and skill.

thats why.

/endrant

i like pie

I'm 13... Can't get no HC time... maybe in 8 years? On Galaxies of StarCraft?

Anyways, Totally respect your decision! This is a good thing! It gives a choice for the HC and SC (Soft core, not star craft) to chose, will they raid a lot, do they play every night? Or do they only get to play during weekends...

BTW: You're the king of long posts

I am from "the foreigners" guild and over the last year we have been together we have gained and lost members. It has never been our intention to become the BEST raiding guild on the server, or to have people bow to us as we passed due to our uber reputation. For some people server reputation (omg look at that leet player go past) is not important. Its not a competition, its a game meant to be enjoyed...and thats exactly what we are trying to achieve. Sounds to me mate that you need to jump down off that high horse you so proudly sit upon because I honestly think you have forgotten what the ground feels like (hell, looks like)

I respect the fact that you are experienced, dedicated player...but that does not give you the right to flame other players/guilds due to their lack of experience. We dont have many endgame raiders in our guild. We fumble and wipe, we learn, we progress. Thats how all guilds started. We got Kara on farm, and we are venturing into ZUL....I admit that at times it is frustrating....but honestly mate....i would take take wiping and being frustrated over the ego-centric, pompus, self-worshiping, vain, arrogant, big-headed, boastful, cocky, conceited, egocentric person you so obviously have become.

I have just taken over as Guildmaster of the foreigners guild and I feel that i should answer some of your criticisms.

Naklin wrote:

oups.... back on-topic....

well, well.....

to be honest, i went to the foreigners... and i was happy not to go there with my main. there is (except 3 (three) exceptions) no HC player in TF guild. least not the 5 weeks i spent there. activity at lowest, people having "power highs" because they were officers of some lose 10 man group yet had little idea (again, except 3 exceptions) about game mechanics, and don't take advice.

Are you referring to your attempts to join a raid? Frankly you were hardly online in your "5 weeks" with us. Raid spots can be at a premium at time. Dreadfully sorry that we could'nt accommodate you at that time but we are more liable to give someone a spot who has played with us for months than someone like you who turns up from nowhere with a bad reputation.

Quote :

As for "serious driving force on our server".....
either everyone in TF deleted their char, and you have new people, i don't see that happen. not with either the skill nor dedication nor understanding of game mechanics in game. you can achieve things, but not be a driving force. a driving force means to run point, to be the tip of the wedge, to be top... well, to be reckognised by our whole realm.
and again... it aiiiiiiiiin't gonna happen.

Now who is being Elitist? As GM I do NOT claim to be a driving force on the server. Nor do I exclude any player on the basis of lack of experience. I will continue to accept players with low levels of playing experience in the hope that they can be leveled and trained up. It is not my wish for the Foreigners to be any driving force but to continue to be a large friendly community for English speakers across china.

Quote :

the biggest foreigner guild? yes. sure... does quantity count? no.
Why i suggested (i never forced anyone, nor was it arrogance) to switch over, before (because now we are pretty much full, and most of us already were, are and will be a driving force on our realm, was because this way i could assure mixing up the right amount of "new to HC endgame" (TF guild) players with "HC endgame experienced" players, because here i DO have the needed reputation to pull those people to follow me into the new raid "joint-venture".

Frankly, given your OBVIOUS arrogance, displayed in these posts and from what I (briefly) saw of you during your blessedly brief time with us AND from what other people have told me... you will need a lot more than your "reputation" to hold a guild together. How about a little humility and respect ?

Quote :

thats why.
harder to pull 10-15 HC players who have a HUGE rep on this serv to another one, than pulling 10-15 dudes who have (besides among themselves) little to no rep server-wide (again, the 3 exceptions apply).
I never wanted it just to keep my rep. i prolly build up rep on a new serv before most of TF can type /afk. its because i could have created a raid here, truly composed of people able to first down every boss in game before anyone else on a whole realm, if not realmlist. because we did it, and we will do it again!
See my point?

No.. Not all ! Whats all this complete rubbish about reputation ?

Quote :

now, last but not least, as i mentioned earlier, i went there, talked with a whole bunch of people, and actually... well...
community? excuse me?
have you ever wondered how much sense of community you had for a tank of yours to leave guild? must have been nice for him. incredible. the last person to ever be lost in a guild is a tank. how in the hell you lost a tank is a mystery to me (not so much, as i heard the story).

Well, I'm puzzled as to who you are talking about. Players DO leave guilds in china and its mostly because of having to leave the country, changing circumstances etc. Some people, just get tired of WoW. We have some fine tanks in the guild right now, like every other player they are valuable but replaceable. I won't chain someone into playing WoW in our guild forever just because of the class they play is important to raiding.

Quote :

There wasn't any raiding due to exclusive elitism and non-teaming of unguilded members (tip: if you can't team 25 peeps in-guild, then FFS team an outsider!), yet all without basis.
i could understand people refuse to team a random, because if they would be incredibly HC and leet, they might do a kara run in 2h20 or dash through any 10-25 man. but honestly.... any RANDOM player would have raised the bar of general play skill in that groups (least during the time i was there).
especially the leading skills of that hilarious rogue. he should reroll and play a non-combat pet.

"that hilarious rogue" would be me ? Honestly dude I hardly remember you being online. I find it amazing that you have garnered so much knowledge about me! I'm happy that you think i'm funny thou.
We aren't elitist but we do prefer not to PuG randoms wherever possible. In my belief that's just common sense to avoid communication issues. We do have chinese players in our guild and they help us wherever possible.

Quote :

so, to sum up.
i ADMIRE (seriously) the fact that you managed to unite so many foreigners. bravo.
i am deeply saddened by the fact that noone was able to organise and/or teach them into play, about the attitudes and the "elitism".

Again i don't recall your presence that much (Hey, maybe your aren't as important to the rest of the world as you think you are?)... but i do know that we continue to assist and help gear up all our members as much as possible.

I really don't accept your admiration. How can I? You seem intent on insulting our efforts.

Quote :

again... bravo...
on our serv we are AFAIK 10 foreigners, and with WLK coming up, me, the last active one raiding, the rest casualing around and PVP/Arena-ing. mostly because we have grinded all instances in game, seriously, all, for so long that it feels nice to have a break.
are we all in one guild? no.
are we happy? yes
do we help each other out at any moment? yes
are we in constant contact? yes (creating a chat channel is as useful as a guild chat)
do we play together? yes, whenever times and schedules apply.
will we probably raid together? yes, if applicable (desire to raid, and skill... sad, but true, i wouldn't team my own mother if she wouldn't know how to play and slow down progression. simple)

so, my best wishes to TF. really. but you had to see my point, since you thought i suggested this for pure ego and keeping my own rep.
i wanted to give those who wished a chance to learn, improve in skill and truly become part of a HC end-game raid who is going to totally beat any other raid of this server in progression and skill.

thats why.

/endrant

I don't see your point! What is your point? You turned up in the guild and expected everyone to bow down and obey you? What do you want from us? To me you are a complete random with a bad reputation who i am VERY GLAD is not part of our community.

You seem fixated with reputation my friend. Gotta tell you this, all you are doing with this incessant flaming is killing any you had left.

I am sorry you feel it necessary to openly attack a community that in my opinion has been one of the most friendly that I have experienced in WoW.
I'd wish you luck in your venture but I fear that it may be doomed with a leader such as yourself at the helm.

This is my single response to your flame I will not reply any further and I would ask my Guildmembers to maintain our dignity and do the same.

I think the trash talking from both sides will not lead to anything constructive.

I think the main idea is:

- If you want to join a cool English speaking community, raid casually and PVP arena in good teams, the obvious choice is "the foreigners".

- If you are more interested into high end competitive raiding, the good choice might be to join a chinese guild or to come play on guandong4 alterac realm.

WOW is a great game in the sense that many type of different players can enjoy it on different levels.

This forum might be more enjoyable if used for helping each other and sharing WOW knowledge.

On the "naklin issue", he might get annoying sometimes, but he is the most helpfull, generous, skilled and passionate WOW player i've ever met and flaming him is not very nice IMO...

Sorry you experience was so bad Naklin! I've been with the foreigners for a couple of months and it's been very enjoyable and a good learning experience. I'd love to do more hardcore stuff, but there's an awful lot I've got to get thru before I can be so hardcore... rep grinds, gear, critical quests, etc... But i can say it's been a huge improvement over the time I spent with my level 70 alliance hunter on the Sichuan servers. I've been to KLZ a ton of times, something I could barely dream about on my old server!

Lyche is our new GM, and he's got quite a challenge ahead of him in terms of developing the guild since alot of the older members are taking a bit of a break. We've got tons of new people it seems, with varying levels of experience. He is an extremely knowledgeable and kind person. He also goes to great lengths to help everyone he can. I can understand how he was a little up set with Naklin's post, basically bashing an already challenging situation. I know Naklin's post had a few positives, but man, he only said them so you could bash us even more (like having the most foreigners in one server, a great positive in my opinion, but then you just use that fact as a negative "quantity over quality" sucks statement.

There are so few foreigners playing in China, and we all have one thing in common: a great enjoyment of the game. Otherwise, why would we all bother to go to the lengths we do to play here? We certainly shouldn't bother with arguing amongst each other lol.

I'd love to see the great end game content and am willing to put in the time and energy. But I want it to be fun too.

Hey Naklin, maybe you should come play a bit more, give it some more time. If there are certain individuals you don't like (which you find everywhere, even in real life), don't use them to generalize all of us. There are some people I don't like either, but there's enough people I do that make it fun. Benefit of quantity I suppose!

What character were you using on our server btw? Still don't know which one you are and whether or not we had a chance to play together.

deadanus wrote:

....On the "naklin issue", he might get annoying sometimes, but he is the most helpfull, generous, skilled and passionate WOW player i've ever met and flaming him is not very nice IMO...

a person could be passionate, skilled, generous, helpfull without be pathetic
IMO if he could slow down its flames, arrogances, to centralize all to himself it could only be better.

about TF and Lyche, I didn't stay enougth time to know them well, that's I got things to push me to make a big break and mind for several months... But for the litlle time i played with I could say they/he is generous, helpfull, passionate and the most important of all respectful.
Some people enjoy pwn a server, some others just like play for YX instance, other like RollPlay, other like arena, other like BG, others like roll many toons... The most important is to have fun. To respect the diferents view that game offer to the gamers and do not critisize them if we don't have the same opinion of the game.

I just hope my english was not too bad i made effort in it because this topic/Answers should be more intresting that it is actualy

REF: Resto

Quote :

We dont have many endgame raiders in our guild. We fumble and wipe, we learn, we progress. Thats how all guilds started. We got Kara on farm, and we are venturing into ZUL

Thats what i said. i respect the fact of you gathered all of the foreigners and that you all have fun. i said so in my post, and i was merely replying to Erik's post. And my "flaming or bashing" if you so like to call it, was mostly pointing things out about certain points he mentioned, concerning the organisation i have experienced in TF.
It might have been or still be different on the long run. i can only speak for the month i spent there (which i also mention).
About your last sentence... your opinioin. But just to make things clear, all those adjectives, true or not true, not to be applied as a general rule.
You won't see me react the same way for PVP, as i know my skill limitations due to lack of practice. Yet, hell, if people who most certainly (not saying you) have had less experience and less knowledge of what they are talking about (especially in the context of playing on CHN servers, as it IS different from EU servers) try to make a oint that is totally out of place, i WILL speak up.
I am a total noob in PVP and most certainly suck (on my mage anyways), but that wasn't the discussion here, so you obviously saw that one side of me.
PS: Rep is not about being idolated, its about having Chinese HC players put trust in you, in order to follow you in a joint venture that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
Sadly, getting into a top tier Chinese guild on a server for progressive raiding (not farming) is not as easy, as many of my other friends being foreigners will confirm. So having offered that possibility, that was my intention.
I wasn't bashing per se, but i was pointing out the major dislikes i saw in TF during the time i was there, which led me to believe if things won't change this can't be a driving force on a CHn server. thats mainly it. i took Erik's post point by point and gave a personal point of view (with its reasons for each).
Nevermind...

REF: blacklyche

Quote :

we are more liable to give someone a spot who has played with us for months than someone like you who turns up from nowhere with a bad reputation.

Point taken, even though i don't know where from you might have had any reputation input on my arrival, but fine.
On the other hand, you are not replying to what you quote from me.
The "power high" was you, which sadly, i didn't screenshot everytime i saw people talking or whispering about it (not me), as my HDD will fill up with too many Screenshots easily.
Doesn't matter anyways. It wasn't about the attempt to raid. I had fun in Hyjal and other instances with the Warrior at that time on your server.
On the other hand, i WAS talking about activity (you don't understand the concept. hopefully you won't be in sales). Activity doesn't mean that on 2 days you have everybody online. it means that you have an ongoing activity. and my main criticism about it was the non push for progression (which might source from our different approach of the game).

Quote :

Now who is being Elitist? As GM I do NOT claim to be a driving force on the server. Nor do I exclude any player on the basis of lack of experience. I will continue to accept players with low levels of playing experience in the hope that they can be leveled and trained up. It is not my wish for the Foreigners to be any driving force but to continue to be a large friendly community for English speakers across china.

i know you didn't say it. again, i replied to erik.
I am all for the community sense of it. again, i explained to erik WHY i offered a chance for all people interested in HC endgame raiding to join up over here, and WHY i reasoned that the chances of being end-game capable as a raid were bigger here. never said anything that newcomers aren't worthy to play a game nor about the community aspect. I was handing people a chance that you can't. (i am NOT being mean. it is simply a fact, and as i have heard OH SO ****ing many whining and requests for a chance to get into endgame instances and do progressive raiding, i thought i offer people a chance.)
erik came along telling me that the chances for this would be equal in TF than over here, and i just had to explain why i think that was ridiculous.
not saying which way to play is fun or not. they are all fun, but besides me having most probably used the wrong words (drinking and posting = bad idea), thats the way i am on forums. and the tone being wrong probably, is what made you misunderstand the post (which you did).

FYI:

Quote :

so, to sum up.
i ADMIRE (seriously) the fact that you managed to unite so many foreigners. bravo.

--

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you will need a lot more than your "reputation" to hold a guild together. How about a little humility and respect ?

am holding the thing together. must be due to arrogance. lol.
i ain't THAT arrogant, mate, but hell, i give a reason for what i say, now please disassemble my reason and give arguments for proving me wrong instead of saying what a bad man i am.
Besides, again, every person who has impressed me (usually with arguments or facts), i do admire them and praise them in front of no matter who. And i do stay humble in front of them. the list is long, you are not on it. maybe i am wrong. prove me wrong.
its simply that the very few times i have seen you online, you were as arrogant as you describe me, with less to back it up.

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No.. Not all ! Whats all this complete rubbish about reputation ?

yes, yes very much, lol, but please prove me wrong and get 15+ top progressive raiders in a raid to go for first downs.
its not the same than getting into a farming raid nor the same than teaming "geared chars".
but again, probably its due to the time some other people and me have played on chinese servers compared to other people, and simply the fact of having felt how hard it is to get spots or things together when it comes to the small tip of an iceberg.
reputation is everything in china. goes for work as it goes for the game. guanxi and money. sadly true.

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layers DO leave guilds in china and its mostly because of having to leave the country

... or changing to other servers because they are tired of how things have been handled in TF. dude, i was just saying what i have seen and heard first hand.
talk about the case at hand, like i did. anywho... nevermind.

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we do prefer not to PuG randoms wherever possible

true, yet if wishing to progressive raid, and not having enough people, it is something you can't get around. not in the beginning.
and again. it was in response to erik's post, talking about the ability to progressively raid and be a driving force.
please dont pull things out of context. kthx.

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i don't recall your presence that much

i was online at time you weren't online (luck?).
and to be honest, there wasn't much to be online except for that 2 day karazhan...

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I don't see your point! What is your point? You turned up in the guild and expected everyone to bow down and obey you? What do you want from us? To me you are a complete random with a bad reputation who i am VERY GLAD is not part of our community.

i never expected anyone to bow. i came because certain several members asked me to come because they WANT to raid progressively. creating lvl1 alts on my srvers and sending me mails, asking me to join your guild and be a raidleader in order to actually organise something viable.
i am sorry i disturbed your harmony. again, i never expected anyone to bow, but i thought that there was a willingness to actually "advance", which was rejected mainly by you, pointing out that "you handle things and that things are this/that way and won't change".
so i thought fine. have it your way, not that i care.
and THAT is a secondary reason why i DID suggest also to give people a chance to progressive raid on this server here. because they ASKED me to.
again.. my post was in response to eriks claim that TF is a top tier progressive raid capable guild with qualities to become a driving force. again, no criticism on your harmony, nor your fun, nor anything.
but criticism of the organisation at that time, and the actual ability (PVE... you guys are certainly not bas at PVP) to become a top tier progressive raid at that point.

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I am sorry you feel it necessary to openly attack a community that in my opinion has been one of the most friendly that I have experienced in WoW.
I'd wish you luck in your venture but I fear that it may be doomed with a leader such as yourself at the helm.

again and again, i have nothing said about your community aspect, merely about the chances of being a progressive raid.
and again, live in china 10 years, come to talk about reputation.
i pay the beers.

REF: wyeme

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I've been with the foreigners for a couple of months and it's been very enjoyable and a good learning experience.

thats what i said. and i am happy for you. the social aspect is good for you. never said that.

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We've got tons of new people it seems, with varying levels of experience. He is an extremely knowledgeable and kind person. He also goes to great lengths to help everyone he can.

i only met him in 2 raids (ZAM / KLZ), and i mmust have met him on his bad days then. the same way he only knows me from my "evil" posts.
over here, mostly anyone knowing me can tell you the same.

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but then you just use that fact as a negative "quantity over quality" sucks statement.

like i said before, i might have chosen the wrong words, which then lead to anger and to misunderstanding fo the actual meaning.
i stick by my actual meaning. having the largest community doesn't account for being able to build up a progressive raid.
i was really saying what i said in order to point that out.
wrong words. again, alcohol and forums dont mix well for me.

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I'd love to see the great end game content and am willing to put in the time and energy. But I want it to be fun too.

exactly. i HAS TO be fun. the point is, i LOVE progressive raiding. and i dont mind wiping, IF you can see / feel imprvement. but if the players or organisation is not up to par, there will be only wipe, and no progression. and no matter how much you are motivated, you WILL lose the "fun" part.
Thats why i offered the possibility of doing a conjoint raid of foreigners who are certainly a bit less experienced in end-game raiding (progressive, as in being the first ones to down a boss as soon as possible, going for the kill while under-geared, etc) and chinese players who are very HC and who have been the top progressive raiders of their server. i thought it would have been a nice chance for those who wanted. and yes, because over here people know that in a raid i have never known to be unjust, nor selfish nor anything like those adjectives above (except pissed off at some times), people here are willing to accept the fact that i asked them to accept several spots for non-experienced foreign players with little or no ability to speak chinese.
it IS a barrier and a break for progressive raiding.

as for the rest, wyeme, there were a whole bunch of incredibly nice and fun people in TF... liked them all. had my diffs with lyche and another guy "in charge".
as for the rest, VERY kind people. OTOH, in need to get more PVE experience before going progressive raiding.
i think that last sentece sums up best my vie of TF.
again.. may have used wrong wording that evening.

REF: pouetpou

You right about respectful... again....... wrong wording laaaaaa.

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Some people enjoy pwn a server, some others just like play for YX instance, other like RollPlay, other like arena, other like BG, others like roll many toons... The most important is to have fun. To respect the diferents view that game offer to the gamers and do not critisize them if we don't have the same opinion of the game.

never criticised for having other goals in the game. but i pointed out the inability to become a progressive raid at the point that i saw TF.

anywho....
i am burying the hatchet.
we were talking on the same highway, but on different lanes....

peace out

I don't remember if you speak Chinese Naklin...but if you do, you can hang out with CN community, you will have a lot of HC things...
I'm just telling you this because after almost 2 years you are still complaining about "us" (wow-in-chinese, community), our way of playing...just move dude...try to get along with someone else, maybe you will find peace as we surely will.

To Deadanus :
Anyway...i love pie too !

lol....
ya, pie rocks...

romainh:
sure i speak chinese, and i do hang out with them. lol...
again, it was wrong wording on a bad day probably, andeverybody beng on their toes and whatnot.
i actually haven't complained about any "community" issues.
nor am i complaining about much else.

was simply stating my thoughts about where the bottlenecks where that made the foreign community not access endgame as a group yet. And wanted to offer them a possibility to do that.
nothing else.
anywho, it doesn't really matter.
i ain't complaining about "you / us".

sadly all of "us" are not on the same battlegroup, because it would have been awesome, if even though we can't endgame alltogether, we could have organized battlegrounds over voice chat, the same way chinese do it, to have cross-realm groups join into one BG, and have some blasting fun.
i would have loved that. (got a lot to learn in peeveepee)

Well, maybe they will fuse some more realms. we are now a tri-realmlist-fuse anyhow... 1+4+10 .... lol

c ya all soon

/peace & fun

Naklin is right on 1 important point.
>All the community is "splited" on a lot of different Chinese servers/area/factions<

Anyway he found/subscribe on this forum in December that we (glob thanks) created this forum in august 2006. We already choose our server and created our own guild at that time. many of us already have a complete panel of characters on it and it will not be easy to change now.
Many plays in Horde side other in alliance side, and some play on boths (yes some are crazy

And I feel confused when a new player arrive on this forum and all the different guild jump on him for recruitment. Just LOL...
Doing that we just split more again our huge comunity.

I think before thinking about Wotlk, we'll have a lot of long months to wait till it arrive here, pwn a server, we should concentrate our effort on gathering all the foreigners community player + their local friends on the same realm on both alliance and horde side or simply choose 1. It could be a great things. And then we could realize event all together blablabla... And the most important, know more each others.

Yes it could be a great things, frankly... I really hope we can pass over disappointments/different point of view and do that. After things will go smoothly.

actually, a good point,... lol
you got my bump for that post.
:-)

i mean, old players CAN transfer characters at ANY given time.
then again, it takes a LOT of organisation, especially to know how many and which players are available and willing to play at which times / days...
but that would be a step later.
:-)

The plan should be to join all the same server in the same area and for the same faction of course but let's see how's come...

That's could be a sacrifice for some people but the result is "we'll all be together, ready to do a lot of different things. HC gamers, Casuals and newbies without discrimination and elitism, inside the same guild/community we could have a lot of mix (such as a community is, with good and bad, here in with casu, HC players etc...)."

That's a bit utopic I admit it, because some prefer PVE server and other PVP or ally or horde, although it shouldn't be a huge problem because we're playing a 90% PVE game, PVP content isn't that much important, except arena and BG are also available on PVE server.
So why a PVP server should be chosen? I still don't understand why they still exist and why so huge people are inside (me too ) ok gank is fun...or not... or make you crazy and logg your 70 main to kill on sight all noobs in Strangle (me yesterday), pass over it, what is the interest?

(for example on maduolan there isn't a waiting time to join a BG, that's instant join, the invert on 山丘之王 we have to wait 4 or 5 mins to join),

that's just an example, people stay free to come on Wow to play PVP, but that's not the best game for that imo. But I respect PVPers in WOW same as respect PVEers in Warhammers (kind taunt)


Now let things 2s if we are all on PVE server, that's mean we could have a player in both faction horde/ally. Thats could be huge, be fun ^^ but utopic also, who made a toon on PVP server will never transfer it to PVE server... (for different reasons)

Just think the result will be: we're a community in the same server/faction, we'll be the huge foreigner WOW community in CHina but together and in the game, not only on this forum, and pass over challenge for interested people, just play and have fun for other, and many things...

Questions are:

Who will be interested in doing this?
On what kind of server and why?
Which faction and why?
Are you ready to make this foreigner community bigger and bigger although you have to make a little sacrifice?
For the moment, where the huge part of the community is and why?
Where are the better Chinese guilds in Wow China? (type of server/faction)
(I stop here now for the moment, cause i could write a tons of questions like this, let's see1st if people are interested in or not)

Other way, i'll suggest to gamers (For a lots of reason you'll easily find by yourself...) to chose the server where the better Chinese guilds are, where the huge number of players are, without queue of course.

Maybe we could arrange a new topic to decide, and 1st try to know who will be intrested to make this community bigger and solid. I know all people will prefer to stay on their own server. They can find a tons of good arguments. But finally, we'll all play together, enjoy good and bad things, that's real life.

That's could be huge.

Whoops, didn't mean to spark a flame rant here...sorry if i came across as blaming you for being egocentric, it's just what poutepou said right above about how we are all split apart...if we all could get together instead of creating new guilds...THEN we would be a driving force...

And what i ment about us being a driving force is that with enough people, we get a presence on a server where our guild is recognised an appreciated for being friendly bunch of english speakers.


Anyways, my point being to apologise for beginning a large flame fest...sorry

pouetp0u, your idea is great! I love it, good luck man!

Btw Nak, fixed my profile info and signatures, hope you like =)

C u in game!

Lostone

O ye, Nak....if you wanna check the chinese guild im in on Gnomeregan for my nelf rogue go ahead...server first all sunwell bosses...(i wasnt there but ret pally friend was there for brutallus server first).

Peace

Erik wrote:

pouetp0u, your idea is great! I love it, good luck man!

that's could be great but impossible...

I'll suggest to all new gamers to join on The Foreigners guild since the huge part of the community is over there...

I'm on this server also with my warlock "burninghead" in TF and "Sadik" UnGuilded.
Just a little detail it's possible to change the guild name ?

some who want to play ally side should go to maduolan join the coweaters but we are in very low population...

hey erik, =.="
gratz on gear and on the raid.

maybe one day our paths cross. hehe...who knows.
i am just off work and having a huge headache, so i better not post anything. not even about pink kittens. it usually makes nuclear holocaust-like reactions.... lol

anywho, i am going to try to look you up in armory a bit. :-)
c ya

Thx man, though my gear is pure PVP atm...trying for some good arena ratings in our 5v5 =P

anyways good luck to u 2!

l8r