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 Warlock PVP Discussion

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stItCh 
OnyxiaOnyxia

Posts : 865
Joined : 2006-12-16
Male Location : 99% Suzhou and 1% Germany

Character in WOW
Server: MaDuoLan - 马多兰, Menethil-米奈希爾-TW
Name: Juliask-Zobun
Guild: Cow Eaters

  Fri 4 Dec 2009 - 14:02  #
Hi All
Hi Trigg

I am looking forward to discuss a little bit about PVP spec details like Gear, Gems, Glyph, Trinket.
No need to mention the different Tree Specs like Affliction, Demon or Destruction as i will stick with Destruction for 2v2 with Afterglow (Priest).

So far we do quite well as 2v2 arena team with overall ranking of 1160 points(we just restarted new team last week).

BG is no Problem for me as i normally take the 1 to 3 place in the leader board.

I believe my gear is quite decent but like to get more optimum out of it.
-Full S2 with S3(Helmet) and S4(glove) mixed (all crit gear)
-All Trinkets from PVP (Crit, Haste, Spell)
-Wrist and Belt are PVP epics from Honor
-Staff (Season 1 Staff)
-2 PVP rings
-All Enchanted

Destro Spec. 0/8/53
Stamina: 12.9K
Intel: 9.8K
Spell: 1072
Hit: 54
Crit: 29.9%
Haste: 0
Resilience: 400

My major Question what are the limits i need for Hit (75 or 100?) and is it good to use so much crit or would be haste a better choice?
I believe Spell>Crit>Hit>Haste would be sufficient but from the latest Europe patch i see crit is not important as Haste is more valuable.

Due to different gear i could also spec Haste or Hit more but i am not sure when i tried it fells less powerful but that might be wrong judged due to stronger enemies and so on.

Gems are major +10 crit, +10 haste, +12 spell power and +10 resilence i am using and glyphs are Camouflage and Fear.

I am open for good suggestions or tips.
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Fri 4 Dec 2009 - 16:42  #
Special Hi to me wow =)

You don't need so much Hit rate in PvP, but Spell penetration, even though it is not the most useful stat for you.
To me, Crit>Spell, however, 900 SP should be your minimum goal.

Talking about crit, you should try to reach at least 27% (unbuff) to be effective, as spells are long to cast (most of them) and destro spec is based on the "i kill ennemies in a few secs" idea.

About the "european patch thing", well we still don't have it, and probably won't have it before a long time, so i suggest you to keep your crit rating up. Personnaly, I tried with haste and everything, the changes are really small. However, losing up to 4% crit is definitely not this small. So yeah, defo, Crit>Haste, plus you have a lot of instants (ShadowBurn, Conflag,...), so don't worry too much about haste.

About Gemstones, if you play with a priest don't really pay attention to resilience/stam.
Priest (and i have one, i can tell you) can heal a really weak player very good, thanks to instants, shield,...Plus they give you Stam buff, so don't really focus on this on your gear.
OF COURSE, and please notice, you HAVE to reach at least 350 resilience (yeah, i didn't say you were going to last long without resilience), that's the minimum. I currently have 368 and I'm doing pretty well even in 2v1/3v1 situations. CC's are your friends here:p

-Hmm, sorry i was just eating so I try to catch where i stopped Smile-

Yeah, I was sayin, have a look at my gemstones/glyphs. I think they are the best, especially with a Priest behind you. (http://cn.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Flame+Crest&n=Trigg)

It's a mix of Crits and spell power (according to gem color to get the bonus). I reach 29.13% crit (unbuff/no firestone/) which is not bad. Plus the crit increases by the talents are not shown, so basically more than 1/3 of my spells are crits.

My glyphs are :

Glyph of Succubus : Always useful if you Immolated or doted an ennemy you need to CC immediately. The Seduce will cancel all the dots on the target, so the seduce will not be interrupted.

Glyph of Incinerate : Particularely interesting when Backlash pops. You can substitute it with Glyph of Fear though, depends on your gameplay.


Hmm, think I said everything, if you got any questions or any points i haven't cleared just Reply Smile

Good luck in your Arena quest.
stItCh 
OnyxiaOnyxia

Posts : 865
Joined : 2006-12-16
Male Location : 99% Suzhou and 1% Germany

Character in WOW
Server: MaDuoLan - 马多兰, Menethil-米奈希爾-TW
Name: Juliask-Zobun
Guild: Cow Eaters

  Fri 4 Dec 2009 - 17:22  #
Hi Trigg

Sure i greet u you are the only warlock here which might be at similar lvl to me Razz

It looks like we have the same opinion on crit. below you see my Armory link with courrent try of haste but i lost crit. So i will try it for a few matches if wow comes up again. But i guess i will get back to crit.

Wow if i compare our gear you still use some normal gear instead of full PVP, now i understand why u got 29% crit.
I can only reach that including the firestone with full pvp gear.

But considering i would mix it with my PVE gear i might get easy above 30%.... still think 29% is good and prefer to keep resilence up as AG still need to get better in healing Smile even he is very good.

I will check the glyphs but prefer the feelhound so i changed away from succu glyph. The incinerate i have not see or overlooked so far but lets try it.

(http://cn.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Madoran&n=Juliask)
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 1:41  #
Hey,

Actually this mix of PvE/PvP enables me to get decent crits and spell power. I still get 350+ resilience (could have even more) which is, to me, the minimum you need to survive. I don't really need more actually, reducing the chances to be hit by a crit by ~1% and reducing those crits damages by 0,5% more, well, it's really little difference. However I get up to +50-70 SP and +4% crit, and here, i really see the difference.

You can play with feelhound but it really depends on which class you're fighting. And after all it's just a matter of gameplay.


Got to go, i have a test to take this morning.
Hope i've been helpful a bit.
bolomas 
AdminAdmin

Posts : 1726
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Male Age : 34
Location : Shanghai

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Server: 奥特兰克-CN1(PVP) Horde
Name: Smallearth
Guild: The Crazy waiguorens

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 7:45  #
Hey guys, I've been following the discussion, very interesting. I was just wondering, if you run with a priest wouldn't affliction be more powerful?

I'm saying this caus once in my 22 with my demo lock partner we ran against disc pirest/affli lock, and I swear I was feared like all the time, not being able to cleanse or dispell thanks to instable affliction.

Fights last longer than with destro but I think against skilled arena teams who know how to run around the pillars, take advantage of the playground and interrupt a cast I think destro just doesn't match affli.

As of right now with my demo partner we beat pally/destro easy.

_________________
When you log on a realm type "/join english" to get in touch with the community members.
WoW English/Chinese glossary (2000+ translated words) found on wow-in-chinese.jfs-web.ch
English speakers are consolidating on the same realm for Cataclysm check this thread
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 10:06  #
Well playing destro is not this easy in arena, but it remains efficient.
And destrolocks not only fear, but also seduce. You can remain behind your pillar, send your succubus and when the opponent is seduced, you just go and begin to kill him.

Now for the skilled mages, it's true casting a spell is a bit harder, however, what i usually do, is to start casting immolate, then stop at around 1 second. The average mages have a reaction time of aproximatively 1 second, and when he will CS you, you will not be casting anything, so basically, will not be silenced for x seconds.
I don't want to "auto-ad" here but check my old video (http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=125199), there is an example of this technique @1:14 : I just cancel Immolate, and you will notice that the mage fails his CS (of course if you understood what i said don't waste time with the video, you can easily imagine what i mean by yourself).

Now I don't really like affli spec because your DPS will not be this high, even if your ability to survive is just huge.
Against for instance Warrior/Priest (one of the best current 2v2, if not the best) I don't think you'll be able to take the advantage because the Warrior DPS will be a lot higher than yours, making your priest run low on mana quite fast. If destro, you can still fear/seduce the priest, pain supression on warlock while warrior bladestorms, and your DPS will certainly be high enough to kill the warrior before the Priest has time to heal him. Even if the warrior has ~20% HP and the priest is not CC, well, conflag + Shadowburn and pray for it to be enough. Conflag has a high crit rate, so should be allright. If not just waste CC's like Death Coil/Shadowfury.


Now it depends on your team, pally destro is not so good because the destro will die pretty fast. A priest however has a lot of instant heals, which make the destro last longer.

Now I hope I answered your question properly...did i ? Smile
bolomas 
AdminAdmin

Posts : 1726
Joined : 2009-05-12
Male Age : 34
Location : Shanghai

Character in WOW
Server: 奥特兰克-CN1(PVP) Horde
Name: Smallearth
Guild: The Crazy waiguorens

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 14:25  #
Well yeah though I still think affli have great potential even against teams like heal/mortal strike DPS (curse of exhaustion+instable affliction+5 instant aoe fear per minute) can let your team some free room to kite the dps, and mana burn the healer, this team is all about mobility.

But I can imagine some fights lasting a long time because of the lack of burst, but if you manage to survive some CDs, as far as I've seen you can definitly win.

_________________
When you log on a realm type "/join english" to get in touch with the community members.
WoW English/Chinese glossary (2000+ translated words) found on wow-in-chinese.jfs-web.ch
English speakers are consolidating on the same realm for Cataclysm check this thread
stItCh 
OnyxiaOnyxia

Posts : 865
Joined : 2006-12-16
Male Location : 99% Suzhou and 1% Germany

Character in WOW
Server: MaDuoLan - 马多兰, Menethil-米奈希爾-TW
Name: Juliask-Zobun
Guild: Cow Eaters

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 14:41  #
Hi Bolo

Affliction is really lacking the DPS, not saying its not good for pvp but i feel more safe with Destro due to the high DPS u can do. Affli against priest teams is not efficient as they dispel u even they get damage they heal it over before u can get sufficient Damage bring back. So survivability will not really help you against good teams, this does not mean Destro will help more but if your lucky and Fire burst, Buff, Buff, Chaos or Camouflage and Backlash including your fear and Shadow burn can bring a healer easy to his limits in a very short time special if they get cc by your teammate.

Demon tree is not bad but against a lock team insufficient as the lock easy can banish the pet and the Metamorphosis which gives you some good time to bring decent damage on the other team mate.

But heal yeah its still the play style which makes the best out of us locks as all 3 trees are quite good today.......even we get nerved compare to good old times where we eat everything for breakfast Razz

Hope to meet u one day in arena Smile
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 14:56  #
I'm arenaing this evening Priest/Warrior, this is a very cool team, pals are useless and we can manage every other team (we defeated at least 3 Affli/Priest).

We are currently 19-5 so it's not this bad, even though we are only @ 1.3 K rating, we just started today.
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 14:58  #
Oh and also rogue mage we are currently 7 victories 3 loss, i think it is the best 2 DPS team.

Try it Very Happy
bolomas 
AdminAdmin

Posts : 1726
Joined : 2009-05-12
Male Age : 34
Location : Shanghai

Character in WOW
Server: 奥特兰克-CN1(PVP) Horde
Name: Smallearth
Guild: The Crazy waiguorens

  Sat 5 Dec 2009 - 19:35  #
lol yeah mage/rogue are my favourite caus my comp ret/demo litteraly explode them and we make A LOT of rating by winning against them. ^^

_________________
When you log on a realm type "/join english" to get in touch with the community members.
WoW English/Chinese glossary (2000+ translated words) found on wow-in-chinese.jfs-web.ch
English speakers are consolidating on the same realm for Cataclysm check this thread
stItCh 
OnyxiaOnyxia

Posts : 865
Joined : 2006-12-16
Male Location : 99% Suzhou and 1% Germany

Character in WOW
Server: MaDuoLan - 马多兰, Menethil-米奈希爾-TW
Name: Juliask-Zobun
Guild: Cow Eaters

  Sun 6 Dec 2009 - 7:27  #
Short Question

How do you get Arena Team Rating of 1300 by 19-5 wins ?
We have 75 - 45 something and dont come above 1250....

Our 3v3 team is awesome with Priest/Lock/Rogue we win 30 games in a row!!! best part the rogue is full s4 with 2 Epic blades Smile
Hirna_zjmj 
Mukla the gorillaMukla the gorilla

Posts : 553
Joined : 2007-08-26
Male Age : 23
Location : Orgrimmar, Kalimdor

Character in WOW
Server: 耐萨里奥
Name: Hirna
Guild: 天國的記憶

  Sun 6 Dec 2009 - 12:37  #
It was my old team from S1, we were already @ 1.6 K +
My team is not @ 1.3 K, but only the personnal rating is.
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