I'm a horde and since we don't have TBC as yet I don't know jack about paladin.

So I wanna ask the ones who DO play a paladin......can they DPS at all? and is their DPS viable in a PVP situation? what are the mechnics of paladin dps?

Ok here are some basic tricks:

you've got 3 spec:
Holy => Healer
Protection => Tank
Retribution => DPS => PVP

If you don't build a clearly oriented dps paladin, you won't dps. But you have to understand, it's not the spirit of the paladin, they are born to exhaust their enemies.

The first must have is the Seal of Command (SoC) = Retribution tier 3; at first glance, you can compare it to the Shaman's WindFury. The you have various possibility. Reckoning bomb (Protection tier 5) was very good before but it seems it has been nerfed. Finally, the last is the holy shock (holy version of the shaman's shock)(Holy tier 7), hits 500 crits 1000 every 15s.

The Seal of Righteouness is the other seal for dps and works better for fast attack (SoC will proceed 7times every min, whatever speed of the weapon)

Seals are a 30s timed buff that can be fired on enemy for various effects (judgement). Some effects are direct damage, some others are effects that last in time, permanently if being refreshed.

So the first judgement to cast is a usually Light (life regen) or Wisdom (mana regen), then you can turn on dps.

The SoC is double efficient on stunned targets. You can stun for 6s every 60s, so that is only a little help on 1v1. On mass pvp, you can wait for a warrior to rush, a rogue to stun, mage and warlocks to stun with fire spells... Depending on the group, double damage may occu very often.

Note that we dont have real counterspell, if you want to counter you must cast Hammer of Justice (which is stronger though).



The paladin is the lowest dps of every class, except against undead and demons, for what you can compare with mage and warlocks (plus you still wear you plate and still are able to heal).
If you want to dps, its possible but you need to really spend time to clearly understand everything about his mechanics.

Finally, one of the very important mechanics of the paladin dps is use the hedgehog tactic; Eye for an eye, Reckon, Retribution aura, Spec Shield etc... all these tactics deal damage when you are hit. No hit, no damage.

I guess the answer is "no" lol

well you can but you need to really work hard on it

still "no" ....
^^

C'mon krokro, prove 'em paladin are better than shaman!!!
(no, I would never start this oooolllldddd debate )

Globuline wrote:

C'mon krokro, prove 'em paladin are better than shaman!!!
(no, I would never start this oooolllldddd debate )

better in what way?

they are allinace.... they look "cuter" ... gnihihi

Ownage, you've never heard of that stupid endless debate on who's the best: Paladin or Shaman? No matter how best, just the best!

Well, you can't compare Shaman and Paladin because they don't play the same role: a paladin can really tank well after TBC release, and not only against undead/demons (we already tank better than warrior against them, and that is since game release). A paladin mainly assume 2 roles: tank and healer, plus we have the most powerful buffs of all classes. A shaman doesnt tank that good but he really dps, not as paladin mossel dps.

And that for 2 reasons: spell books and techniques are different, and the armor type is not the same.

Ok guys let me clear things for you guys in normal game (lvl 60) paladins are only good at healing and the best at pvp when they have T2 and retribution spec(dps) but when TBC comes out paladins will outtank warriors if propaly speced they will outheal priests if propaly speced and they will be the best dps against demons and undead and the second best dps after the rogues against normal races and in pvp paladins are just unbeatable.

Now you just going to tell yourself that im a paladin and i just tell lies but just go on youtube and check the dps that some paladins do check the battles between priests and paladins in healing combat and finally, check who lasts longest between a paladin and a warrior and you will see that what I said is not bullshit and finally you can see that in arenas paladins own BIG time

Websites

Healing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPou9IL6aK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg6gXF6nxTA&mode=related&search=

PVP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vo6Vkj10Ao&mode=related&search=

DPS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPF6lz-BfE

Tank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K10cQPjadoI

not too shabby, but being able to solo elites doesn't necessary mean able to tank. tanks have to be proficient in holding aggros.

The warrior for example got alot of skills to either hold or regain aggro.

The druid on the other hand got buff by blizzard that their normal skills and attack already generate additional aggros. They also got limited amount of skills that regain aggro too.

what does the paladin have? what would he do if say the priest got aggro?

The dps looks good though. but "second best dps after the rogues" is pushing it.

ownage wrote:

The dps looks good though. but "second best dps after the rogues" is pushing it.

Not a chance. Rogue = DPS class, Pally = Utility class. Even with some of the lopsided balances I've seen in the game...I can't imagine Blizz making Pallies out to out-DPS Mages, Hunters, Warlocks....

I basically see pallies as "priests with plate" that can survive a hit now and again.

"I can't imagine Blizz making Pallies out to out-DPS Mages, Hunters, Warlocks...." think again on dmgmeters paladin are often in the top 5 behind the rogues and WAY above every one in dps when its against demons or undead, stats do not lie warlocks are now just used for DOTS hunters for pulls and mages for sheep and AoE

LOL okay, keep lying to yourself.

okay here is the first link of my "lie" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNWvytYbyo

AND that is lvl 60 at lvl 70 paladins r better DPS
OUCH Ownage

second proof of my"lie" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GICyy32gLW4&mode=related&search=

OUCH ownage

Want more "ownage"

Somewhere I belong-Linkin Park-


Sounds fitting.

Quote :

Not a chance. Rogue = DPS class, Pally = Utility class. Even with some of the lopsided balances I've seen in the game...I can't imagine Blizz making Pallies out to out-DPS Mages, Hunters, Warlocks....

I basically see pallies as "priests with plate" that can survive a hit now and again.

true words..... love ya, trout


now dilou:

1) do you REALLY take everything you see on youtube as the total and only truth?
Because i am very able to show you tons of videos where mages, hunters, locks, ... pwn. why? how? because whenever a mage psn in a raid. the little child will make a video and post it. so, when a paladin, for ONCE IN HIS LIFETIME, pwns... he will do a video. there go your examples.
paladins = utility class. NOT pure healer, NOT pure DPS...

undead, you say? against undead? hmmmmmmmmmmm
ok, given you refer to level 70.... because in level 60, i only have seen MAGES OT and pull aggro of Patchwerk. do that with a pally and i will shut up. until then. not really.

at level 70. they pwn PVP, because they cleanse and the g*y bubble + healing. now, focused fire, and good teamplay, takes down anything. like on another thread, pvp depends also a little on the skill of the person using a class.

2) i am at home, i gotta go to work, but at work i will be bored, wo i will post videos of DPS in TBC.
mages, rogues, locks, hunters...... they dps VERY hard..... and if a pally ONLY can dps against undead... MOOOO point. then they are utility class again, and not serious DPS. UTILITY, as in: "oh, there is an undead needed to bring down fast.... get the pally to help out"
see my point?
i think you won't.... so......continue with your happy dream.
PS: what do you smoke? i want the same stuff for me. apparently it makes you see things... ^^
*grin*
*smile*
*MUAHAHAHAAHAHAAHA*

/end of evil post (i havn't done that in a long time, but reading this was just too hilarious for not to respont)

A little something about videos, they usually put all the pwnage scenes and cut all the got pwned scenes, it's call-editing.

Just because a paladin does incredible feats on those videos doesn't mean it happens everyday. Its more like a once in a blue moon thing.

Here's an example of once in a blue moon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uMs9V_8jXU

but usually this is what happens everyday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOf1xLT0Y0A

/thank you....

my words in a shorter form...

OK ownage thats what you may think what happens but I dont see NO proof and when TBC comes out I will make a vid of me owning in dmgmeter I will even make one at lvl 60 for my own pleasure of owning you n00bs

Note the difference if your smart enought

Mage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EScxNNIVrj4

Paladin : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GICyy32gLW4&mode=related&search=

Warlock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in6KvrBFJSc&mode=related&search=

Hunter : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihiuXhUGdM0

Rogue : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqaoteEhFJ8&mode=related&search=

Tip: pal1300dps mage 1150dps hunter1000dps warlock and rogue doesnt say but they are cleary outdpsed

OWNED n00bs

And also your conclusion of saying that a dps paladin can only dps once in a while is fucking stupid because if it can dps once it can do it anytime

dilou wrote:

And also your conclusion of saying that a dps paladin can only dps once in a while is fucking stupid because if it can dps once it can do it anytime

So by your logic; if I win the lottery once, I am gaurentee to win again?

MUAHAHAHAHAHA
ROFL....
"once in a while", a raidgroup "sleeps" because they are on farm status, and a paloush will DPS.. whoopdidoo.

i have yet to see a pal NOT burst 2 strikes but keep very high sustained DPS.....

pala = utility / multipurpose
their dps is situational, while pure dps classes don't have that restriction.

please, PLEASE stop with youtube videos (noobish), and send me DMG meter reports + screen of it, of each raid your pala goes to. and lemme see other peoples gear...

then i'll have a laugh.
until then. i'll laugh without it.
you crack me up, man.
you played on US/EU? where people are undergeared and more noobish than in china? gratz

welcome to raiding in china. you WONT dps.

Super pala DPS, how much do you give to NEF ?

Paladin can DPS. Situational but still can DPS; however they need to give up on certain stuffs to gain that advantage.

Naklin I have always played on wowchina and never on EU/US servers and YES I will make screenshots of my dps in NAXX(cos of undeads lol) but than you will start crying and say "yes, but it was against undeads it doesnt count" so ill need to do it in BWL or MC to show you a real dps and you just say that youtube is noobish but its just that you dont want to swallow the truth

Thanks Luna, finally someone that can speak because they have actually played a lvl 60 paladin in there lifes

ownage wrote:

dilou wrote:

And also your conclusion of saying that a dps paladin can only dps once in a while is fucking stupid because if it can dps once it can do it anytime

So by your logic; if I win the lottery once, I am gaurentee to win again?

DPS is not luck like lottery is, you always have the same gear talents so you will always do the same DPS simple but unfortunatly there are people not intelectually develop

OUCH Ownage ...... and Naklin

PS : Naklin dont follow the logic of some "special" people

stop yapping and whip out the screenies

nef dammage ...

And Naklin you are NOT chinese so STFU with your "welcome to raiding in china" I atleast have been a RL where we were 8 palys doing MC and 2 dpsed and where i was 6th on the dps but I had to heal myself and were I have never died unlike the DPS people which died as soon as they took agroe or were there was a AOE boss I also had to go MT on the 2nd boss because all warrior were down which a rogue or mage could never do so i can asure you that in the DPS we are not the best but in having one of the best damage overall and staying alive and needing noone to heal and giving excellent buffs and being MT if warriors are down we are defenitly the BEST

dilou:

Relax man! This is merely a debate about a GAME. I don't personally agree with your views, but I'm not gonna get ugly either.

Keep in mind one thing however. It's my opinion that the Horde win most WSG and AB matches because the classes that can spec to heal....actually HEAL (usually). I've seldom been healed by a pally or druid while playing my gnome lock in WSG or AB. Of course, soon enough, the Alliance will get shammies, and the Horde pallies. I'll bet that nearly all of those Horde pallies will go for the best healing tree. I think this because from my experiences, shammies far out-number pallies (pre-TBC anyway) and it is yet another class that could do a decent job of healing for the Horde.

And yet another thing for dilou:

All this DPS and all, I've found a nice tactic for kicking pally asses in on a regular basis in my level range. Overpowered?...my ass. LOL.

Without mana...a pallie's DPS sucks arse. A rogue doesn't...and will NEVER need mana to DPS for minutes after a pally is long spent on a boss mob. Mages are getting a new ability to regen mana, and locks already have it.

dilou wrote:

DPS is not luck like lottery is, you always have the same gear talents so you will always do the same DPS simple but unfortunatly there are people not intelectually develop

OUCH Ownage ...... and Naklin

well it all depends in terms of short run dps which all those crits ARE luck and the long run dps which all those crits eventually average out. Since those vids you post were pvp vids it IS about short run dps (burst).

Say if a paladin crit 10 times in a roll, isn't that luck? you really think it happens all the time?

If you're talking about long term dps which can only be tested on boss with alotta HP. don't even bother, cuz I doubt they'll ever let a paladin DPS in a raid. EVEN IF THEY DO, you'll have trouble keeping up with the rogues and warriors because of the paladin's dps mechnics of using mana.

eventually your mana will be out and so will your DPS.

A paladin bragging about his DPS is like a rogue bragging about his heal.

Just accept the fact that paladins are a moving totem and sit your ass in the back and heal.

dilou wrote:

PS : Naklin dont follow the logic of some "special" people

You're right, you're "special" and I'm just a noob, remember?

Quote :

And Naklin you are NOT chinese so STFU

under normal circumstances i would shout "ban, ban" (like some children before me) for the direct insult, yet i hope PLEASE noone starts modding this. this is WAY to much fun.
kudos on using acronyms though... FOAD, mate. seriously.

now, i have seen people on drugs talking a lot of BS. But that was situational due to their high (as is a paladin's DPS). you however, keep talking BS for days. REALLY, tell me WTF you are smoking, mate.

Quote :

Thanks Luna, finally someone that can speak because they have actually played a lvl 60 paladin in there lifes

Luna played a pally? when was that? Luna, please enlighten me or tell me it as in a parallell universe. gratz again dilou for making assumptions. but i am used to it. you also assume a pally is "THE" DPS machine.

Quote :

Paladin can DPS. Situational but still can DPS; however they need to give up on certain stuffs to gain that advantage.

Luna's post. dilou thanked him for it. now what did Luna say? hmmmm
SITUATIONAL, my dislexic friend; SITUATIONAL.

Quote :

pala = utility / multipurpose
their dps is situational, while pure dps classes don't have that restriction.

now thats what i wrote further up... hmmmmm. let me spell it out for you, as you seem to have trouble reading... did i or did i not say: their dps is SITUATIONAL? i did. i added that pure DPs classes don't have that restriction. now how is that different from what Luna said? LEARN TO READ!

my point has been the following since the beginning:
Paladins can DPS. they do BURST a LOT in PvP (and thus also in PVE), and against some types of mob their DPS is boosted (undeads, for example).
Yet they are NOT a pure DPS class, able to sustain high DPS over a LONG period of time, against about any kind of mob. (which pure DPS classes do).

I never said a pally can't deal out damage (once you get out of second grade you might want to re-read my posts). i soimply say that they will NOT be top damage dealers in general because of that one little tiny condition: SITUATIONAL DPS.

you said DAYS back that you will post videos of 60pally doing damage. later you said you are raiding naxx with your pally.
So where are the damn videos? or at least a screen? or are you waiting for a blue moon again? (ROFLMAO ILICISCOMK)

i am quite an open person. i say: IMPRESS ME!!!
i am still waiting...
i ask: backup what you are saying and post (if not a video) screenshots (more than one, on consecutive bosses & raids, to prove ownage's blue moon theory wrong) and some DMG meter reports.
i am still waiting...

i will make it easier, my great RL (PS, if i team for UBRS, i am a RL. whoopdeedoo. great achievement to be RL), why dont you simply give me the name of your realm you play on (and which server it is). i have CD-keys up my butt on all servers. i will come, create a char, and simply ask your raidmates about this stunning 74 who pwnz them.
i am sure i will be waiting as well...

now, please, this post of mine is an exception, as i have not used FOAD or other expressions in this forum yet, and i hope it stays this way, unless you of course will continue with "STFU" or similees.

I think all people here who posted said the same: POST SOME BLOODY SCREENSHOTS, MAKE US SHUT UP, STOP BLOWING SMOKE IN THE AIR, IMPRESS US, and TEACH US BETTER.

use ARGUMENTS. we don't need to. The game and 99% of all raidstats speak for themselves. (i have yet to see people on a forum scream NERF PALLY, THEIR DPS IS WAY TOO HIGH. Funnily this happens a lot with rogues, mages and locks).

i suggest for your argumentation, you could use a simple approach as follows:
1) post your build. this will let us understand better how you manage to achieve your output.
2) post your gear (CT-PROFILES, allakhazam, etc... all can create automatic character profiles for you with all your gear). this will make us understand even further, where your might is coming from
3) show us some DMG meter reports, linked to some screenshots of long duration fights (even if it is naxx), of more than one fight (to disprove the "situational" theory) and if possible with other people in the image, so we can estimate their gear and how equivalent it's to yours
4) explain how you keep high dps and continue to be mana efficient over time, and which technique you use for it, what timings you do or which sequences for abilities you use, in order for us to understand how you are able to do what you say.
5) end the whole post with a smiley face, say "in your face", and make me shut up.
6) wait for our replies

until then, i will keep waiting...

i had to watch the vids you posted until now, dilou....
i couldn't resist...

a) not one continuous movie. all just e-peen extensions of crits stuck together. beurgh.
b) VERY well geared for level60 (i am not complaining, i am admiring)
c) nice high crits

now... has anyone cared to see the pally's mana bar go down like hell, even on one single encounter with one adversary in pvp? amazing.

Quote :

okay here is the first link of my "lie" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXNWvytYbyo

AND that is lvl 60 at lvl 70 paladins r better DPS
OUCH Ownage

this one i liked. wonderful damage. on a cloth boss. cloth... gnihihihi, again, cut together the crits, saying he was right after rogues (their casters must have been friggin sleeping this fight then, because even rogues who have pleasure on noth (cloth) have trouble with casters in this fight). gratz to him. nothing to see. he doesn't show me the rest of his raid. might as well be a blue moon encounter.
like we said. they can do, but its unusual.

Quote :

second proof of my"lie" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GICyy32gLW4&mode=related&search=

OUCH ownage

this one is my fav though....
the guy gets all -1 outdoor buffs, has critrate up his butt, and has potions and flasks up to drown in them, and he goes to .... stratholme. SHORT firght. even the baron is WAY to short to claim DPS.
the baron was down, he wasn't the only one hitting him, and he was at <80% mana. good job. not impressive.
he won't last long. funny note though... ALL buffs... i mean ALL buffs and sick gear... and he crits for DMG more than i do... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
good job, really.

tell you what...i gotta go work now, and i am in another city.
when i get back home, i will gear down a bit, i will put me dressed up in "available to most people" gear, and i am gonne run a BG with my mage, for the fun of it and make a vid without cuts.
i don't play BGs so well. and i wont go for flags. just kills.... lets enjoy a bit. i hope there will be pallys...
bye

hey you are HORDE right? and you are on page 4 SO THAT MEANS we can go on BGs together we should set up a BG ok?

uh oh, do I hear a challenge? I think I hear a challenge naklin frap it, I wanna see how the bunny beats the snake as well

Dood, u so full of it Stop arguing and show some screenies ...

You keep on pretending that you DPS high with your pally... Show us junior

yap.
we can....

WE CAN!!!!!!!!!!
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

FINALLY SOMEONE WITH THE RIGHT MIND!!!!!!

we can even pvp with the rest of the funny-bunch here, because server 1+4 got merged.....

PM me, my swell new target practice. i will give ya my msn or skyp or anything. some "outside of wow" live communication channel should be established, so we can enter the same BG.

it would be rather "sweet" if you could grind up some friends and actually team a group of 10 (you are a RL... shouldn't be a problem) to enter WSG, and i'll do the same. that way people can play "their" game, and leave us rather alone, knowing about our bone to chew. ^^.
on the other hand, i would love to have my horde friends and me blow you alliance petbums out of WSG, and once getting tired of kills, taking your flag 3 times to end your misery... gnihihihihi.

DEEEEAD.... get the dust off your rogue!!! we are going to slam some pally ^^

PS: it wouldn't be afir if it would be 10vs10. we DO target pallys with focused fire, because we KNOW their burst in pvp and their utility in carrying a flag. so you would have to handle more than 1 mage. not fair indeed.

yet...... bah... PM me about your means of communication you prefer...

everybody else on this forum on server 1 or 4 with a level 60 char who wants to join this epic moment of "get-together", PM me if you have a horde char, PM dilou if you have alliance char.

i'ts gonna be more fun this way, even though i'd rather go in with my established group.

see you soon. until then, make your e-peen grow and post those damn shots and vids and stop changing the subject.
because i never said that pally can't burst. and pvp is burst only. i say you are not the 2nd best dps class for long sustained dps.
(i was complaining baout your initial statemnt way up, followed by a lot of horsecrap)

so don't change subject like a child does, and prove all your initial statements first.
ALL the videos you posted (even the ones of mage and hunter dps, which make me LAUGH) are not over longer periods of time (which is the only way to determine true dps, because crits start to even out and factor in the dps as a real stat and not luck).

now run, you are late for school.

ownage, i am gonna hand you LUNA or my hunter for the event, so you can join the BG with my other char for some fun as well.
my drood only level 54... soz, mate.

but maybe i can get a 60, well geared drood on loan for you for this thing. then you can have your fun and participate in the gang-bang-bukkake. i don't know which side "alliance or horde", but someone is gonna have a lot of cum on his face at the end of the day.

lets try to organize it for this weekend sometime. i think everybody should have time by then.

if we use voicechat, we can throw the insults. no moderation. hehe

so, feel free to PM me if you forgot my msn. ^^

Naklin said FOAD! LOL

I'll be there

DZ or MS as u like...

But i think DZ is a better can opener

Sweet, I'll take the hunter, luna was my roommate's account.....it just doesn't feel right playing her somehow, been ages since I play a rogue anyway.

I'll need to setup my personal key binds, I use EDSF instead of WASD with all the keys around it binds to skills, I only use 1 to 5 on the number bar.

you'll have to do the frap since my PC is a dinosaur. I just hope dilou was serious about the challenge. It sounds like fun.

i can fraps in roguorama

violence, guts and bukake .

the hunter is undergeared though.
blues, greens, and a few epics, no MC bow,...
but good spec and 1000+ AP unbuffed and 3.30 speed bow (+ 2 faster ones for other opponents) and his crit gear / build make him my fun in pvp.
don't ecpect the T2/3 hunter, but expect to be able to aimed shot crit cloth for 2400-3000 and plate for 1400-2400.
autoshoot crits for about 600-900 now.
so its still a joy. the slow bow allows a mana efficient aimed shot rotation without dps loss (as opposed to arcane shot) and i do dps higher than most tier 1-2 hunters on bosses. ^^

OK little boys and girls on every friday me and my maits do netcafe form about 6 to 11 chinese time. Would be good if it was during that time.We are going to be 6 we have 4 spaces left if you want to join the team than tell me. My msn name is (dylanzeboss@hotmail.com) and I think that my skype name is the same(dylanzeboss) (dont laught at my name i created it when i was 11)